Jan 23, 2025 City Council Special Meeting

[1. CALL TO ORDER]

[00:00:07]

ALL RIGHT. SINCE WE'RE ON THE AIR AND I'VE BEEN. NO, WE'RE GOING TO BE. AND THAT'S OFFICIAL. WE'RE GOING TO OPEN OUR SPECIAL NUGGET OF THE CITY COUNCIL. SPECIAL WORKSHOP FOR THURSDAY, JANUARY 23RD, 2025 AT 3:00. RIGHT ON THE BUTTON RIGHT THERE. OKAY. I DON'T KNOW IF CHIQUITA'S COMING IN, SO I HAVE NOT BEEN GIVEN ANY PRIOR NOTICE WHETHER OR NOT THERE WERE. YOU KNOW. HELLO. YOU'RE FEELING IT? DO YOU HAVE THE DUTY? THANK YOU FOR COMING. DO YOU KNOW IF WE

[3.A. Receive a presentation from the Duncanville Police Department on revising Chapter Four—Animals and Fowl City Ordinance to comply with state legislation changes and best practices, Council discussion on the proposed changes, and direction if needed.]

RECEIVE A PRESENTATION FROM DUNCANVILLE POLICE DEPARTMENT ON REPRISING CHAPTER FOUR. ANIMAL AND FOWL CITY ORDINANCE TO COMPLY WITH STATE LEGISLATION CHANGES AND BEST PRACTICES.

COUNCIL DISCUSSION ON THE PROPOSED CHANGES AND DIRECTION, IF NEEDED. AND I KNOW THE LAST TIME YOU ALL CAME UP YOU WERE ABOUT TALKED OUT, SO YOU WENT RIGHT INTO QUESTIONS. YOU HAVE SOME THINGS YOU WANT TO GO AHEAD AND OPEN UP WITH TODAY. MAYOR, IF IT'S OKAY WITH YOU, I THINK WE'D JUST LIKE TO GO LINE BY LINE. OKAY, LET'S GO LINE BY LINE. AND IF IT'S SOMETHING THAT WE NEED TO CIRCLE BACK TO SO WE DON'T GET HUNG UP ON IT. LET'S CIRCLE BACK TO IT AND GET THROUGH THE STUFF THAT WE KNOW IS OKAY. IF THAT'S THAT'S HOW. SOUNDS LIKE A PLAN. OKAY. SO WE'RE GOING TO KIND OF LET CHAD DRIVE A LITTLE BIT. ALL RIGHT. SO WHAT IS IN FRONT OF YOU THERE IS THE RED LINE REVISIONS. I HAVE ALSO DONE A YOU'VE SEEN THIS BEFORE, BUT IT'S A POWERPOINT THAT'S A LITTLE BIT SIMPLIFIED. SO IF YOU WANT TO FOLLOW ALONG WITH THE RED LINE REVISIONS OR THE POWERPOINT OR BOTH. BUT LIKE ASSISTANT CHIEF WILCOX SAID, WE'LL JUST START RIGHT THERE AT 410 DEFINITIONS. WE'LL GO SLIDE BY SLIDE OR SECTION BY SECTION. I WOULD SUGGEST IF YOU IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, JUST STOP ME. WE CAN START IN THERE OR MAYOR HOWEVER YOU WOULD LIKE. ALL RIGHT. WELL I'LL JUST ASK THE COUNCIL STRAIGHT UP RIGHT NOW. SINCE WE'RE GOING LINE BY LINE. IF YOU HAVE QUESTIONS THAT YOU HAD WHEN YOU READ THROUGH IT PRIOR TO THIS MEETING, JUST HOLD THEM UNTIL UNTIL WE GET TO THAT PARTICULAR ITEM. OTHERWISE, IS THERE ANYTHING ANYBODY HAS TO ADD BEFORE WE START THE MEETING? I GUESS THE FIRST AND FOREMOST THING IS, ARE WE IN AGREEMENT THAT WE WANT CHICKENS IN OUR CITY? WELL, I DON'T. I DON'T KNOW THAT WE HAVE TO BE IN AGREEMENT AT THIS POINT IN TIME, AND I'M NOT SURE THAT'S EVEN THE QUESTION BEFORE US TODAY. BECAUSE THIS ADDRESSES THE ALLOWANCE FOR CHICKENS. SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT SECTION, IF THERE'S OPPOSITION TO SOME PART THAT ALLOWS CHICKENS, WE CAN DISCUSS IT AT THAT TIME, SINCE WE KNOW THAT THIS MIGHT BE AN ISSUE THAT WE GET CAUGHT UP ON.

I JUST WANT TO SAVE THAT FOR THE END. JUST GET THROUGH THE OTHER STUFF WITH VACCINATIONS AND ALL THAT STUFF, JUST ROLLING THROUGH THAT. AND THEN WE ALREADY I THINK WE ALL ALREADY KNOW THAT THAT'S PROBABLY GOING TO BE THE TOPIC THAT TAKES THE LONGEST, RIGHT? OKAY. WELL CAN I ASK DO DO WE HAVE ANYONE THAT WANTS TO ADDRESS ANYTHING BESIDES THE CHICKENS? WELL, WE'RE GOING LINE BY LINE. YEAH, WE'RE GOING RED LINE BY RED LINE. IF ANYONE DOES HAVE ALL ITEMS, ALL ITEMS. SO IF SOMEBODY HAS AN ISSUE ON VICIOUS DOGS WHEN WE HIT THAT ITEM, THAT'S THE TIME TO BRING IT UP.

ALL RIGHT, LET'S GO. SO WE'LL SEE HERE ON SECTION 410 WITH THE DEFINITION WE HAVE ADDED SEVEN NEW DEFINITIONS. SIX OF THE SEVEN PERTAIN TO FOWL AND OR LIVESTOCK. THE REASON BEING FOR THAT IS MAINLY WITH THE CHICKEN AND LIVESTOCK ORDINANCE. IT'S COMPLETELY OUTDATED. THAT IS WHY SIX OF THOSE ARE PERTAINING TO THE LIVESTOCK. WE HAVE ADDED THE EXERCISE YARD DEFINITION, WHICH PERTAINS TO THE CHICKEN COOP. THAT WOULD PROBABLY BE IN THE. OKAY. LET ME LET ME GO BACK ONE DEFINITION. WE ELIMINATED DEFINITION OF DANGEROUS DOG BECAUSE IT'S NOW BEING CALLED A VICIOUS DOG. CORRECT? CORRECT. IS THERE A REASON TO EVEN LEAVE THE DANGEROUS DOG THAT YOU LEFT

[00:05:02]

YEAH. OKAY, I SEE THE DIFFERENCE. OKAY, SO BUT I STILL SAY, DO WE NEED A DEFINITION FOR DANGEROUS DOG IF IN FACT, WE DON'T SAY DEFINITE DANGEROUS DOG ANYMORE. IT'S VICIOUS ANIMAL.

ISN'T THAT CORRECT? CORRECT. YEAH, THAT IS CORRECT. I MEAN, IT'S NOT NOT A BIG DEAL IF IT STAYS IN THERE. I JUST WONDERED IF IT NEEDED TO STAY. IS THERE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS ON ON THE DEFINITIONS? WELL, I'M SORRY I INTERRUPTED WHEN YOU SAID EXERCISE. OH. THE EXERCISE.

YEAH. AND THAT ACTUALLY IS GOING TO BE PART OF OUR ROOSTER. QUESTION I HAVE A SLIDE AT THE END THAT THERE'S A QUESTION FROM. EXCELLENT QUESTION FROM YOU GUYS THAT I'M GOING TO ANSWER ALL OF THEM. THAT WE RECEIVED FROM YOU ALL. AND THAT IS IN THERE AS WELL. SO THAT WILL BE EXPLAINED THE EXERCISE YARD AS IT PERTAINS TO PROTECTION AND ROOSTERS. OKAY.

SO NO. OKAY. JUST FOR US IT'S GOOD EXERCISE YARD. AND THEN IT SAYS MEANS AS ENCLOSED ATTACHED TO THE. DO WE WANT TO REMAIN CONSISTENT WHERE WE HAVE THE COLON AFTER EACH WORD THAT WE'RE DEFINING. SO YOU HAVE DOG COLON DANGEROUS DOG COLON CAT COLON EXERCISE YARD. AND THEN IT SAYS MEANS ARE WE NOT. ALL CHICKEN COOP MEANS AND THEN BACKYARD CHICKENS. SO IT WOULD SAY EXERCISE COLON SHALL MEAN SHALL MEAN EXERCISE YARD. COLON SHALL MEAN EVERYBODY CONSISTENT WITH ALL THE OTHER DEFINITIONS. AND SAME THING WITH BACKYARD CHICKENS CHICKEN COOP. THANK YOU. ANYTHING ELSE ON PAGE ONE? I HAVE A RECOMMENDATION FROM A CITIZEN THAT WE HAD A DEFINITION FOR. BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT SHALL MEAN THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THAT. YEAH, IT'S REFERENCED IN THE DOCUMENT. SO YEAH, I THINK A DEFINITION. IT'S NOT IT'S NOT ON HERE. SO I HAVE TO. BE LOOKING. THROUGH THE WHOLE THING. AND OKAY, SO CHAD YOU'RE JUST MAKING NOTES OF THESE AND WE'LL MOVE ON OKAY. YES SIR. SO WE'RE ON PAGE TWO AND WE HAVE ALSO REMOVED TWO DEFINITIONS. AND THAT IS THE DANGEROUS WILD ANIMAL THAT WE JUST SPOKE ABOUT AS WELL AS SHELTER. SHELTER. WE JUST ADDED SECURE ENCLOSURE JUST FOR A BETTER CONTINUITY TO UNDERSTAND WHAT THAT MEANS. AND WE AND THERE'S ALSO A RECOMMENDATION FOR DEFINITION OF CHICKEN RUN.

CHICKEN RUN. AND. PLEASE. WHAT PAGE ARE YOU ON. WELL IT'S NOT IT'S NOT IN HERE. IT SHOULD BE ADDING THE DEFINITION OF CHICKEN RUN. OKAY. AND THAT'S WHAT I'M I WAS LOOKING AT IT SO I KNOW THERE'S A ROOSTING SPACE REFERENCE. SO WE DO HAVE ROOSTING SPACE. THERE IS A THERE IS A DESCRIPTION OF A CHICKEN RUN AND A CHICKEN COOP. YEAH. IT'S IN THE CHICKEN COOP SECTION. AND IT REFERENCES THAT THAT RUN SHALL BE PROTECTED AGAINST PREDATORS. CORRECT. THE EXERCISE YARD. YEAH. ESCAPING SUCH ENCLOSURE AND OFFERS PROTECTION FROM PREDATORS. SO REAL QUICK. SO YOU SUGGESTED TO ADD THE DEFINITION. Y'ALL ARE SUGGESTING THAT WE DON'T NEED TO ADD THAT. WELL, I DON'T KNOW. LET'S REAL QUICK LET'S LET'S GO OVER IT. IT IT'S DISCUSSED IN THE BODY OF THE DOCUMENT. MAYBE. IS IT UNDER ANOTHER DEFINITION THAT YOU JUST READ FROM CHAD? NO. WE JUST HAVE IT UNDER THE CHICKEN COOP AND THEN THE EXERCISE YARD. OKAY. SO THE QUESTION ON THE TABLE COUNCIL IS SINCE WE DISCUSS AND WOULD DESCRIBE AN EXERCISE YARD, DO WE WANT TO INCLUDE THAT AS A DEFINITION PER THE REQUEST OF COUNCILMAN PENNEBAKER? WHAT'S THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN A CHICKEN COOP AND A CHICKEN RUN. A COOP TO RUN THE YARD, THE AREA THAT

[00:10:04]

THAT'S THE SAME THING. CORRECT? I'M SORRY. YEAH. CHICKEN RUN IS MENTIONED. YEAH. SO WE DO NEED TO PUT A DEFINITION IN THERE THAT. SO THEN WOULD Y'ALL BE OKAY WITH. EXERCISE YARD OR CHICKEN RUN. COLON MEANS THE I THINK THAT'S GOING TO BE FINE. I USE AN INDOOR AND OR. OKAY. SO WHILE WE'RE ON PAGE TWO SO WILL THEY ARE DIFFERENT. AN EXERCISE YARD IS AN ENCLOSURE MEANS AN ENCLOSURE ATTACHED TO A CHICKEN COOP. YES. THE RUN. IT CAN JUST BE THE YARD. IT COULD BE THE ENTIRE BACKYARD. IT COULD BE A FENCED OFF AREA. THAT WOULD BE THE EXERCISE YARD. BUT BEYOND THAT, THE RUN CAN BE THE ENTIRE BACKYARD. ARE YOU ALLOWING IN THIS ORDINANCE FOR CHICKENS TO BE RUN ON LOOSE IN THE BACKYARD? THEY HAVE TO BE KEPT CONTAINED. YEAH, BUT THE ENTIRE BACKYARD FENCE WOULD BE THEM BEING CONTAINED. RIGHT. WELL, SO IF YOU IF YOU GO TO. SO IT'S PAGE 14 WITH THE KEEPING OF BACKYARD CHICKENS. WHERE THE SECTION STARTS THERE. SO IT GETS INTO THE NUMBERS AS IT PERTAINS TO THE COOPS AND, AND THE NESTING BOXES. HOW MANY BOXES PER HENS.

IT'S KIND OF FINDING EXACT NUMBER HERE FOR THAT. YEAH. BACKYARD HENS. SO. E 128 E.

NUMBER ONE THEY'RE BACKYARD HENS SHALL BE KEPT WITHIN A SECURE ANIMAL HOUSING ENCLOSURE THAT IS CONSTRUCTED AND MAINTAINED IN COMPLIANCE WITH ALL REQUIREMENTS OF THIS CHAPTER. ALL REQUIREMENTS FOR ACCESSORY BUILDINGS, WHETHER OR NOT SUCH PERMIT AND BE LOCATED BEHIND A FENCE THAT IS AT LEAST SIX FEET IN HEIGHT. BACKYARD HINGE SHALL BE KEPT AT ALL TIMES WITHIN THE SECURE. SO THEY'RE CALLING IT SECURE ANIMAL HOUSING ENCLOSURE, EXCEPT FOR WHEN THEY'RE BEING TRANSPORTED. AND THE TWO COMPONENTS OF THAT ENCLOSURE ARE THE COOP AND THE RUN. CORRECT.

READING THIS, THAT COULD BE THE BACKYARD IF IT'S FINISHED, RIGHT? I MEAN, IT DOESN'T WE'RE NOT SAYING YOU HAVE TO HAVE A SEPARATE RUN OR EXERCISE YARD INSIDE OF THE BACKYARD. AS LONG AS THE BACKYARD IS FENCED, THAT QUALIFIES UNDER THIS. YEAH. AND IT. YEAH. AS LONG AS. YEAH. I THINK THAT IS THAT THAT FENCE IS AT LEAST SIX FEET IN HEIGHT THEN. YEAH. THAT WOULD THAT WOULD COUNT. AND WE'LL GET TO THAT LATER. YEAH. YEAH. SO I WOULD AGREE THAT A DEFINITION FOR DOG RUN SEPARATELY BECAUSE CHICKEN RUN I'M SORRY. SO PAGE THREE. MORE DEFINITIONS.

WITH THE. NOTHING PERTAINING TO THE LIVESTOCK OR FOWL. WE DEFINE UNPROVOKED WHEN IT COMES TO DOGS, VICIOUS DOGS MAKING UNPROVOKED ACTS. WE ACTUALLY DEFINE THE WORD UNPROVOKED. AND WE KIND OF JUMPED AHEAD. OH, I'M SORRY, I'M STILL ON PAGE TWO. AND JUST A QUESTION OR OBSERVATION. I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S A STATE TERM THAT DESCRIBES OUR HEALTH INSPECTOR AS THE LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITY HAVING JURISDICTION, BUT I WOULD JUST SUGGEST THAT YOU CHECK TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT'S NOT A TITLE THAT COULD CAUSE CONFUSION. THERE MAY BE TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT REFERENCES TO LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITIES, ONE BEING THE CHIEF, AS THE DEFINITION SAYS ON THIS PARTICULAR ISSUE. BUT WE JUST DON'T WANT TO BE MY SUGGESTION THAT WE CLARIFY

[00:15:07]

IT'S PRETTY AMBIGUOUS, YOU KNOW, AS TO WHAT IT TAKES FOR A CHICKEN TO STAND AND TURN AROUND WITHOUT TOUCHING THE WALLS. SO I WOULD THINK DIMENSIONS WOULD BE MORE ENFORCEABLE IF YOU HAD TO ENFORCE IT. IF YOU GO IN INTO YOUR BACKYARD AND YOU SAW A CHICKEN THAT REALLY WAS BEING TREATED CRUELLY BECAUSE IT COULDN'T TURN AROUND AND IT COULDN'T, YOU KNOW, GET AWAY FROM EITHER WALL. I THINK THAT IF YOU WENT TO COURT, A DIMENSION WOULD HAVE TO BE IN THERE TO SAY, WELL, YOU DIDN'T MEET THE MINIMUM DIMENSION. I KNOW CHICKENS COME IN DIFFERENT SIZES. THAT'S ALL I KNOW ABOUT CHICKENS. THEY DO. I THINK YOU DO GET THE DIMENSIONS LATER ON IN THIS THOUGH, RIGHT? BUT THAT'S WHAT I WAS ASKING BECAUSE YOU MENTIONED SOME DRAWINGS AND MAYBE I SKIPPED OVER THAT. I WAS ONLY LOOKING AT THE RED. RIGHT? NO. YEAH IT DOES, IT DOES GET INTO A BIT. YEAH. OKAY. WELL WE'LL DISCUSS THAT WHEN WE GET THERE. AND THEN THE LAST THING I HAVE ON PAGE TWO, AND I PROMISE YOU, I DON'T HAVE THIS MANY ON EVERY PAGE UNDER SECURE ENCLOSURE. THE LAST ADDED IN RED AT THE BOTTOM UNDER SECURE ENCLOSURE. YOU REFER A NUMBER FOUR TO A DANGEROUS DOG. AND IT SEEMS AS THOUGH WE'VE ELIMINATED THAT TERM. BY DEFINITION, WE ELIMINATED THE DEFINITION. AND SO THAT THAT SHOULD BE. CLEARLY MARKED AS CONTAINING A VICIOUS ANIMAL, UNLESS YOU MEANT THIS TO MEAN SOMETHING ELSE. AND I'M MISSING IT. I WANT YOU TO ELIMINATED THE DEFINITION OF DANGEROUS DOG. IT SEEMS LIKE YOU SHOULDN'T BE USING THAT TERM AGAIN. THAT'S HUGE. YEAH, AND MY BIGGEST QUESTION ABOUT THIS, AND THIS IS MY LAST QUESTION FOR NOW, IS UNDER THE RUNNING AT LARGE RIGHT ABOVE IT, WHICH SEEMS TO BE THE CONTROLLING PARAGRAPH OVER THIS NEW SECURE ENCLOSURE THAT YOU HAVE HERE. IT'S TALKING ABOUT. RUNNING A LARGE SHALL MEAN. SO YOU'RE DESCRIBING WHAT WE'RE RUNNING AT LARGE MEANS IN THERE. AND THEN WE JUMP TO A SECURE ENCLOSURE. THEN WE GET DOWN. WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SECURE ENCLOSURE DOGS, NOT A DANGEROUS DOG OR NOT A VICIOUS DOG. A SECURE ENCLOSURE FOR DOGS. BUT YOU'RE ASKING PEOPLE TO PUT A SIGN UP THAT SAYS DANGEROUS DOG. YEAH. AND I JUST DON'T MAKE THE CONNECTION THERE, BECAUSE THAT WOULD MEAN IT WOULD SEEM TO MEAN THAT IT COULD BE CONSTRUED TO MEAN ANYBODY WITH A DOG IN A PROPERLY FENCED AREA WOULD HAVE TO PUT THAT LABEL ON THEIR. YEAH, YEAH, I THINK THAT NUMBER FOUR THERE. YOU'RE CORRECT. I THINK FOUR WOULD NOT NEED IT WOULD NOT NEED TO BE UNDER THIS SECTION, AT LEAST UNDER THE SECURE ENCLOSURE. IT WOULD NEED TO BE UNDER. FOUR.

ACTUALLY, WHEN A DOG HAS BEEN DEEMED DANGEROUS, WHICH WE DO HAVE A SECTION FOR THAT. OKAY.

ALL RIGHT. WELL I'M GOOD. THANK YOU. YEAH. ANYBODY ELSE? SO IN MOVING NUMBER FOUR FROM THIS IS THE LAST SECTION. SO SECTION 411 ENFORCEMENT. ARE WE MOVING NUMBER FOUR FROM THAT BOTTOM OF PAGE TWO I HAVE MADE IT. YEAH I'VE MADE A NOTE TO REMOVE THAT NUMBER FOUR THERE. YES MA'AM.

[00:20:02]

IS THAT THE SAME? YEAH. YOURS IS JUST A BIGGER TYPE. SECTION IN HERE. OKAY. DO WE BELIEVE IT AT ALL? SO DON'T START. OKAY. YEAH. SORRY ABOUT THAT. I'M HAVING AN AFRICAN-AMERICAN. OKAY. WE'RE ON PAGE THREE NOW. YES, YES. YES, SIR. PAGE THREE. SO. IS THERE ANY. SO WE DID ADD SOME DOWN TO THE BOTTOM THERE UNDER WILD ANIMALS. WE JUST ADDED SOME ANIMALS THAT WE MAY AND HAVE COME IN CONTACT WITH. IT HAD BEEN WE HAD ALWAYS HAD WILD ANIMAL DEFINITIONS. IT WAS JUST VERY MINOR. SO YOU'LL SEE THEY ADDED SOME LION, TIGER, CHEETAH MONKEYS. THAT'S THE DIFFERENCE IN THAT PART THERE. SO MR. CHAMBERLAIN AT THE VERY TOP, IT'S NUMBERED FOUR, FIVE, FIVE.

BUT JUST TO NOTE. UNDER THE SECURE ENCLOSURE, THE CONTINUANCE. OF THE NUMBER 455456. RIGHT THERE. THANK YOU. ANY QUESTIONS ON THE WILD ANIMAL ADDITIONS? I WILL SAY I HAD A FRIEND THAT HAD A TIGER IN DUNCANVILLE, AND WE'D GO OVER TO ANOTHER FRIEND'S HOUSE AND IT WOULD PLAY IN THE BACKYARD AND PLAY IN THE POOL. OH CRAZY. AND WE ALLOWED IT. SO IT WASN'T ILLEGAL FOR AT THAT TIME, I GUESS. TIGER, WHAT'S THAT ADDRESS? IT'S IN JOE'S DISTRICT.

THAT'S WHERE YOU'RE WALKING. SO PAGE FOUR, I BELIEVE I'M RIGHT NOW. WOULD YOU STILL GET. IN? THREE, TWO, ONE. OKAY. SO UNDER THAT. YEAH. THE UNDER THE UNPROVOKED. WE'VE JUST CLEARLY DEFINED THAT WE DIDN'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE WHEN IT PERTAINS TO IF A ANIMAL BITTEN A HUMAN, WHETHER IT WAS PROVOKED OR UNPROVOKED. SO WE HAVE TO FIND THAT WHICH YOU'LL SEE. THERE ARE NUMBER THREE, AN ANIMAL THAT IS AT LARGE AND COMMITS AN UNPROVOKED ATTACK ON A DOMESTIC ANIMAL THAT CAUSES THE DEATH OF THE ATTACKED ANIMAL. THIS IS ALSO SOMETHING THAT WE HAVE BEEN DEALING WITH QUITE A BIT. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE WITH ANY DOG ON DOG ISSUE. SO IF ONE NEIGHBOR'S DOG GETS OUT AND ATTACKS, ANOTHER THING WE COULD DO OTHER THAN MAYBE A DOG AT LARGE OR RABIES CITATIONS. YEARS AGO WE HAD SOME PITBULLS DOWN NEAR FERGUSON STREET THAT WENT ON TO SOME OF THOSE PROPERTIES AND KILLED SOME SHEEP, SOME DOMESTIC SHEEP THEY HAD BACK THERE. SO THAT'S COVERED HERE? YES, SIR. NOT JUST DOG ON DOG, BUT DOG ON. CORRECT? OKAY. YOU GUYS COVERED? YES, SIR. IT'S COVERED. I MEAN, WITH THE WORDING ATTACKED ANIMAL THAT COVERS ALL OF THEM. SO I THINK WE'RE GOOD THERE. AND THEN YOU CAN SEE JUST ABOVE THAT A COUPLE OF THINGS WERE ADDED THAT WERE JUST GRAMMATICAL. SO I'M SURE Y'ALL DON'T HAVE AN ISSUE WITH ANY OF THAT. SO WE CAN MOVE ON FROM ALL OF THAT. AND OF COURSE, HE'S LISTED OUT THOSE OTHER ANIMALS DOWN THERE THAT'S BEEN ADDED UNDERNEATH FOR SO WE CAN MOVE FROM ALL OF THAT AND GO ON TO PAGE FOUR AND PICK UP UNDER ENFORCEMENT. SO DOWN AT G. YEAH G THERE. SO WE HAVE ADDED A TIME FRAME PERIOD FOR EACH VIOLATION. AGAIN CURRENTLY IN THE IN THE ORDINANCE WE DON'T HAVE A TIME FRAME FOR SEPARATE OFFENSES. THAT CITATION CAN BE ISSUED.

[00:25:01]

AND SO, YOU KNOW, WE WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO SAY, YOU KNOW, JUST THERE'S MANY PEOPLE THAT FEED CATS, BUT IT'S NOT THEIR CATS, YOU KNOW, THEY JUST LEAVE CAT FOOD ON THE FRONT PORCH. SO CITIZENS HAVE THE RIGHT IF THOSE FERAL CATS COME OVER ONTO THEIR PROPERTY TO TRAP THEM CORRECT HUMANELY. AND THEN YOU WILL PICK THOSE UP. YES, SIR. AND THAT IS TYPICALLY HOW WE HANDLE THOSE COMPLAINTS. IF WE GET ANY FERAL CAT ISSUES, WE WILL BRING A TRAP OUT AND CATCH THEM THAT WAY AND TAKE THEM TO THE SHELTER. ALL RIGHT. BECAUSE I KNOW Y'ALL HAVE BEEN CHALLENGED ON THAT BEFORE AS FAR AS DEALING WITH CATS. AND I KNOW THIS HAS BEEN ASKED, YOU KNOW, I'VE BEEN ASKED, WELL, HOW COME THEY'RE NOT ADDRESSED? YOU KNOW, AS FAR AS RUNNING THAT LARGE IN THE ORDINANCE. RIGHT.

AND WE CURRENTLY HAVE A TNR PROGRAM THAT STARTED UP ABOUT THREE YEARS AGO AT THE SHELTER.

AND SO WHAT THEY'RE DOING IS WHEN WE BRING IN A FERAL CAT, WE WOULD TAKE IT TO THE SHELTER.

AND THE SHELTER IS SPAYING AND NEUTERING THE CAT SPAY AND OR NEUTER, VACCINATING AND MICROCHIPPING, AND THEN RELEASING BACK INTO THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THE REASON BEING.

SO WE GOT A LOT OF, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF PEOPLE DIDN'T UNDERSTAND THAT AT FIRST, BUT WHAT THE REASON THAT'S BEING DONE IS FOR THE POPULATION PURPOSES, OVERPOPULATION. SO WHEN YOU TAKE A CAT OUT OF A COLONY AND YOU AND IF WE WERE TO TAKE IT TO THE SHELTER AND IF IT'S TO FERAL AND THEY HAVE TO EUTHANIZE, WHAT ENDS UP HAPPENING IS THAT COLONY IN THAT NEIGHBORHOOD JUST BECOMES VACANT. SO YOU'LL HAVE NEW CATS MOVE IN, ALL THE NEW ONES THAT MOVE IN THEN ARE NOT SPAYED OR NEUTERED AND THEY'RE REPRODUCING ALL OVER AGAIN. SO IF YOU CAN KEEP THE IF, JUST SAY YOU HAVE EIGHT THAT ARE ON YOUR STREET THAT YOU SEE FREQUENTLY, THEN YOU CAN KEEP THOSE EIGHT, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE ALL FIXED AND YOU HAVE THAT ONE COLONY AND THEY KEEP OTHER CATS OUT. SO IS THERE A TAG OR SOMETHING? YES, SIR. SO THEY THEY ACTUALLY CLIP THEIR LEFT EAR TO. THE. CAN WE DO THAT TO A REPEAT OFFENDER DOG. NO SERIOUSLY. CAN WE? WE HAVE ADDED SOMETHING WITH THE OFFENDER. YEAH. THANK YOU. SO SECTION 412 A RUNNING AT LARGE. WHAT WE DID WAS ON SEE THERE. WE REMOVED THAT TO BE ABLE TO CLEARLY DEFINE TETHERING ANIMALS AS ONE OF THE BIGGEST QUESTIONS I RECEIVE OUT IN THE FIELD IS ABOUT TYING UP DOGS, TETHERING DOGS. AND SO THIS THIS SECTION 412 B CLEARLY DEFINES IT WITH RIGHT THERE. IF YOU LOOK AT SEE SKYLINE TYPE AERIAL TROLLEY. SO THE ONLY WAY WE AND THIS IS IMPLEMENTED NOW IN THE CURRENT ORDINANCE HOWEVER IT'S JUST NOT DEFINED VERY WELL LIKE THIS ONE IS CURRENT ORDINANCE JUST STATES BASICALLY A CHAIN ATTACHED TO TWO POINTS. AS LONG AS IT'S TWO POINTS AND THE DOG CAN RUN ON A TROLLEY LINE, IT CAN BE TIED UP, WHICH IS NEEDED FOR SOME CITIZENS THAT DON'T HAVE FENCES AND OPEN BACKYARDS. AND THEY NEED TO TETHER. SO BUT THIS ACTUALLY GETS INTO TWO FIXED POINTS THAT ARE AT LEAST 20FT APART, WITH A DOWN LINE THAT IS FIVE FEET IN LENGTH AND ALLOWED TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS THAT

[00:30:06]

SO, CHAD, I UNDERSTAND THE FULL INTENT OF THIS, BUT IS IT SOMEWHERE ELSE THAT WOULD INSTRUCT A PET OWNER THAT IF YOU'RE GOING TO TETHER A DOG, YOU ALSO HAVE TO PROVIDE IT? LET'S SAY IN THE MIDDLE OF SUMMER, ITS ABILITY TO GET IN SHADE? YES. SO THAT'S ACTUALLY STATE LAW, WHICH WE DO. WE FOLLOW THAT. SO THE STATE LAW REQUIRES ADEQUATE SHELTER AND WATER AT ALL TIMES. OKAY. YEAH OKAY. IT LOOKS LIKE SECTION 413 IS JUST ADDING IN FOR THE TEXAS HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE. YEAH. SO WE ADDED THAT. COUNCILMAN PENNEBAKER, I BELIEVE YOU WANTED US TO PUT SOME WORDING IN THERE REGARDING PARKS AND STUFF LIKE THAT. SO RATHER THAN DO THAT, WE THOUGHT IT WOULD BE BEST TO JUST ADD, YOU KNOW, AS REQUIRED BY THAT SUBSECTION AND THE TEXAS HEALTH AND SAFETY CODE THAT COVERS EVERYTHING. SO WE DON'T HAVE TO WORRY ABOUT BECAUSE WE'RE NOT GOING TO GO PUT PARK ON ALL THE DIFFERENT ORDINANCES THAT CAN BE ENFORCED IN THE PARK. SO THAT'S WHY WE DID THAT. THANK YOU SIR. WE DON'T HAVE ANYTHING ON SECTION 414 PAGE SIX. WE'LL MOVE ON TO PAGE SEVEN UNDER ANIMAL QUARANTINE SECTION 415. WHAT WE HAVE DONE HERE IS JUST SIMPLE GRAMMATICAL ERRORS. WE JUST ADDED AT THE TIME OF THE INCIDENT. AND THAT PERTAINS TO WHEN A DOG OR CAT HAS BITTEN A HUMAN. SAME THERE DOWN IN D, WE ADDED A INSTEAD OF BRAIN IN BRAIN IS NOT MUTILATED AS IT PERTAINED TO SUBMITTING THE BRAIN FOR TESTING. SECTION 417 ANIMAL NUISANCE. WE HAVE THIS AND THIS AND THIS IS THIS IS THE PART HERE THAT WE HAVE ADDED FOR ANY DOG OR CAT THAT IS IMPOUNDED TWO OR MORE TIMES IN A CALENDAR YEAR MAY BE DECLARED A NUISANCE.

AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY SOMETHING. MAYBE ANOTHER DISCUSSION ON ON WHERE WE WOULD STAND AFTER THAT NUISANCE IF WE DECLARED A NUISANCE, WHETHER IT'S REMOVED FROM THE CITY. AND I THINK THAT'S PROBABLY A JUDGE DECISION AT THAT POINT. WHAT HAPPENS AFTER THAT? YEAH, BECAUSE WHEN I READ DOWN TO THE END OF G, THE LAST PARAGRAPH, IT KIND OF DESCRIBES THE LOCAL AUTHORITY SHALL MAKE SUCH A DETERMINATION ABOUT THE PUBLIC NUISANCE. AND IF THE EVENT, IN THE EVENT SUCH CONDITION IS NOT ABATED WITHIN 15 DAYS OF SUCH NOTICE, A CERTIFIED LETTER RETURN RECEIPT REQUESTED TO THE OWNER SHOWN FOR THAT ADDRESS SHALL BE SENT AND CONSTITUTE PROPER NOTICE. AND I JUST PUT A NOTE THERE TO MYSELF. AND WHAT'S THE NEXT ACTION? RIGHT? YEAH. SO WHEN A THEME NUISANCE, THAT MEANS EITHER REMOVED OR CITED WITH A CITATION AND OR BOTH.

YEAH, I KNOW IN SPEAKING WITH CEDAR HILL ANIMAL CONTROL, THEY, THEY ACTUALLY REMOVED AFTER THE THERE'S MAYBE THREE, 2 OR 3 AFTER 2 OR 3 IMPOUNDMENTS IN A CALENDAR YEAR. THEY FORCED THEM TO REMOVE THE ANIMAL. YEAH. OKAY. LIKE DEALING WITH A WITH A REMOVAL OF A VICIOUS DOG. DOES THAT HAVE TO BE MORE CLEARLY STATED IN THE ORDER OF ACTIONS TO BE TAKEN WHEN YOU MAKE THAT DECISION? AND WHO MAKES THAT DECISION CORRECT? THE REMOVAL OF A OF A DANGEROUS DOG IS COMPLETELY DIFFERENT, AND THERE'S STEPS THAT THE OWNER WOULD HAVE. I UNDERSTAND THAT, BUT I'M JUST SAYING WE DON'T HAVE THOSE STEPS HERE. IT ENDS AT SHALL BE SENT AND CONSTITUTE PROPER NOTICE. AND THEN IT DOESN'T SAY SO WE COULD WHAT TRIGGERS YOU AND GIVE YOU THE AUTHORITY TO REMOVE THE ANIMAL AT THAT POINT? RIGHT. YOU'RE SAYING YOU THINK IT'S A JUDGE? I BELIEVE SO THAT PROBABLY SHOULD BE INCLUDED IN HERE. IF WE COULD CONFIRM WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY THAT THAT'D BE THAT'D BE THE NEXT ACTION. AND THAT AUTHORIZES YOU THEN TO GO AND CONFISCATE

[00:35:02]

YOU GET A LOT OF AT LARGE CALLS. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ON THE ON ANIMAL NUISANCE AND. SECTION 418 SEIZURE OF AN ANIMAL. ALL WE DID HERE WAS JUST ADVISE MODIFYING THE WORDING TO COMPLY WITH STATE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS. AND THAT GOES BACK TO THE STATE REQUIREMENTS IS ACTUALLY PUTTING A LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITY AS OPPOSED TO JUST ANIMAL CONTROL AUTHORITY. THOSE ARE THE TWO CHANGES ON A AND B.

SO THAT'S PAGE TEN 418 A VICIOUS ANIMAL. AGAIN THIS IS THIS IS A CONTINUATION OF COMPLYING WITH THE STATE STATUTORY REQUIREMENTS, ADDING IN A LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITY FOR THE WORDING. THAT'S BEEN DONE THERE ON A ONE AND TWO AND FOUR. ON THE DETERMINATION THAT AN ANIMAL IS VICIOUS. SECTION B THEY'RE STILL UNDER 418 A NUMBER THREE. THIS CLEARLY LINES OUT FOR HOW TO. OR I GUESS FOR ANIMAL CONTROL FOR US TO. OR IS THIS. I'M SORRY. THIS IS FOR THE APPEAL. EXCUSE ME. THIS IS FOR THE APPEAL. THE OWNER, WE CURRENTLY HAVE IT IN THE ORDINANCE THAT THEY JUST HAD TO FILE A WRITTEN NOTICE. WE HAVE ADDED THAT THEY MUST ATTACH A COPY OF SUCH DETERMINATION THAT WE GIVE THEM, AS WELL AS MAIL A COPY. TO US AS WELL WRITTEN AND MAILED. WHAT SPARKED THAT CHANGE? IT'S WE'VE HAD A NOT TOO MANY ISSUES, BUT JUST OVER THE YEARS WE HAVE ATTEMPTED TO DEEM A DOG DANGEROUS AND THE OWNER HAS APPEALED THE DECISION BECAUSE IT GOT KIND OF CONFUSING, JUST LIKE IT HAS WITH THE LIVESTOCK PERMITS. THEY DIDN'T REALLY KNOW WHERE TO GO, WHETHER CITY HALL OR PD. AND SO WHAT WAS HAPPENING WAS THEY WERE WRITING APPEALS AND, YOU KNOW, THEY DIDN'T KNOW WHERE TO WRITE IT TO. AND SO NOW IT'S IF WE CAN HAVE IT WRITTEN AND MAILED, I THINK THAT WOULD HELP US OUT. YEAH. IS THERE ANYTHING IN THE STATE LAW THAT IF A, IF A PERSON VOLUNTARILY REMOVES A DOG THAT'S BEEN DEEMED TO BE VICIOUS FROM THE CITY OF DUNCANVILLE? HOW DO WE PROTECT THE CITY THAT MAY BE RECEIVING THAT ANIMAL? YEAH, WE'VE ADDED THAT NOW. OKAY. YEAH. YES, SIR. PAGE 11. WE'LL KIND OF CONTINUE WITH THE REQUIREMENTS FOR THE OWNER. SORRY. PAGE TEN. SECTION C KIND OF BLEEDS OVER INTO THE NEXT PAGE, BUT THE REQUIREMENTS, IT'S JUST ADDING WE THIS WE'VE HAD THE THAT THEY'RE REQUIRED TO SHOW US THE INSURANCE COVERAGE OR FINANCIAL RESPONSIBILITY. AND WE JUST PUT THE NAME, ADDRESS AND PHONE NUMBER OF THE INSURANCE COMPANY. THAT'S OBVIOUSLY JUST SO WE CAN MAKE SURE THAT THEY HAVE COMPLIED WITH THE INSURANCE. YOU'LL SEE IN THAT CHART THERE THAT WE'RE PRETTY MUCH IN ABOUT IN THE SAME WITH LOCAL CITIES AROUND THAT, WE REQUIRE A $100,000 LIABILITY IF THEIR DOG IS DEEMED DANGEROUS. AND NUMBER SEVEN, IT'S JUST ADDING FOR 18 A IN THAT SECTION THERE. ON PAGE 12. SECTION. 418 C. VIOLATIONS OF CONDITIONS BY THE OWNER OF A

[00:40:12]

BUT I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THE IT WOULD APPEAR THAT THE SPECIAL USE PERMIT HERE IS CLEARLY DIFFERENT THAN WHAT'S REFERRED TO IN OTHER PARTS OF OUR CITY ORDINANCES AS A SPECIAL USE PERMIT, AND TO AVOID CONFUSION, A DISCUSSION WITH THE CITY ATTORNEY TO SEE IF THAT CREATES A CONFLICT OR IF IT CAN GO AS PRINTED. I JUST WANT TO POINT OUT THAT THAT TERM IS USED. I THINK, IN WHAT'S CLEARLY TWO DISTINCTLY DIFFERENT SITUATIONS. OKAY. AND JUST FOR THE CLARIFICATION, WE SOMEONE WAS ASKING WHY ARE WE CHANGING IT FROM COUNCIL TO BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ON THE APPROVAL. I BELIEVE WE HAD AN INCIDENT WITH THE GOATS ON MAIN STREET A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO. SOPHIE'S CHOICE AND TO GET YOU GUYS AWAY FROM HAVING TO MAKE THAT DECISION, I THINK IT WAS A LITTLE 5050 ON IT. YEAH. AND SO IT'S A OPERATIONS ISSUE. I AGREE. I DON'T THINK WE SHOULD. WELL, YOU KNOW, NOT THAT THERE AREN'T OTHER ISSUES THAT COME BEFORE US THAT WOULD EQUATE TO THIS, BUT IT PULLS ON YOUR HEARTSTRINGS SOMETIMES WHEN YOU'RE DEALING WITH THESE KINDS OF DECISIONS. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT ACTUALLY HAS, I THINK, 17 RESPONSIBILITIES OUTSIDE OF HEARING ZONING CASES, WHICH 99.9% OF THE CASES ARE ZONING CASES. AND I'M NOT SURE HOW THEY'RE KEPT UP TO DATE ON THE FACT THAT I THINK SEXUALLY ORIENTED BUSINESSES ARE SOMETHING THAT DEFER BACK TO THE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT WHEN THEY'RE APPEALING, AND SO THEY DON'T KNOW THAT. SO I'VE GOT DOWN HERE UNDER AT SOME POINT, I PUT A NOTE IN HERE THAT WE NEED TO MAKE SURE IF THEY'RE GOING TO GET THIS, THAT THEY'RE TRAINED ON HOW TO HANDLE THINGS OUTSIDE OF ZONING CASES, BECAUSE I GUARANTEE YOU THEY HAVE NOT BEEN TRAINED ON ANY OF THE OTHER 17 OR THIS ONE NOW THAT THEY'LL BE GETTING. BUT I THINK IT'S THE APPROPRIATE BOARD BECAUSE THEY WORK ON HARD AND FAST. THEY'RE A QUASI JUDICIAL BOARD THAT IS NOT ANSWERABLE TO THE CITY COUNCIL. THEIR THEIR DECISION IS FINAL. THEIR ONLY APPEAL APPEALABLE TO DISTRICT COURT. AND SO I THINK IT'S A MORE. IT'S A GROUP THAT HAS THEIR HEAD ALREADY PLANTED IN A VERY STRICT RULES AND GUIDELINES PUT FORTH BY THE STATE FOR BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO RENDER DECISIONS. SO I THINK IT IS A GOOD PLACE. TO YOUR POINT, MR. CHAMBERLAIN, I'M SURE YOU'RE AWARE OF THIS. THERE WAS A HOUSE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD. THIS IS A FEW YEARS AGO THAT THEY HAD A REALLY A VICIOUS DOG OR DANGEROUS DOG, AND IT WAS LIKE BARRELING THROUGH THE FENCE. SO THE NEIGHBOR WENT TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS, WHICH ALLOWED THEM TO PUT A FENCE UP AS WELL TO HELP SECURE THE AREA, BECAUSE THAT DOG ENCOUNTERS. PAGE 13. MORE WORDING ERRORS. LET ME LET ME GO BACK. SPEAKING OF WORDING ERRORS. RIGHT. LET ME GO BACK AND ASK YOU BECAUSE I WASN'T SURE WHAT THIS MEANT ON PAGE 13 F1A PERSON WHO SELLS IN THE CITY A WILD ANIMAL AS DEFINED.

SOMEBODY HELP ME OUT HERE. ENGLISH MAJORS. IT SEEMED LIKE IT'S A IT'S A IT IT'S NOT PROPERLY GRAMMAR. INCORRECT. A PERSON WHO SELLS IN THE CITY AND IN THE CITY. AND HERE WE GO. I

[00:45:05]

YEAH, WE WANT TO DEFINE WILD ANIMAL. SO THAT'S WHY THEY'RE. YEAH, IT DOESN'T SAY THAT ONE MORE TIME. ONE MORE TIME. SO A PERSON WHO SELLS A WILD ANIMAL IN THE CITY, AS DEFINED IN THE CHAPTER. I'M PRETTY SURE THAT COVERS THE INTENT. YES. I WANT TO GO BACK. WE MENTIONED SOMETHING ABOUT BOARD OF ADJUSTMENTS. I DIDN'T SEE THAT ON PAGE 12. WHERE IS IT ON PAGE? IT'S LATER IN THE OKAY. LATER ON PAGE 13. I SEE IT THERE, BUT IT'S OKAY. SO IT'S NOT ON PAGE.

I WAS STUCK THERE. SO. PAGE 13. SO SOME OF THAT AT THE FOR SEE IS ADDING ONCE AGAIN THE LOCAL HEALTH AUTHORITY. E PERTAINS TO WILD ANIMALS RUNNING AT LARGE. IN THE. YEAH. THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. UNDER A. ANOTHER. AND JUST JUST FOR THE RECORD THE OFFICIAL NAME OF THAT GROUP IS A ZONING BOARD IN THE CITY OF DUNCANVILLE ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. SO. OKAY.

AND THEN ON LETTER G, WE. IT'S GONE INTO BASICALLY THE SAME THING WITH THE VICIOUS ANIMAL DANGEROUS DOG. I'LL SAY BOTH JUST BECAUSE WE'RE STILL AT THAT NOW. BUT FOR THE LIABILITY COVERAGE AND THIS HAS BEEN ADDED FOR WILD ANIMAL AS WELL. SO IT COVERS THAT. WE DIDN'T HAVE THAT FOR ANYBODY THAT MAY OWN A WILD ANIMAL. PAGE 14, SECTION 420. SO BEFORE WE DIVE INTO THAT RIGHT THERE. THANK YOU. I REALLY WOULD RATHER JUST MAKE SURE WE GOT EVERYTHING ELSE COVERED BEFORE WE EVEN START THAT. CHIEF. SO WE'LL GO AHEAD AND SAY IT AGAIN. OKAY. SO LET'S LET'S JUST GO AHEAD AND SKIP TO PAGE 20.

UNDER SECTION 426 PURCHASE. I BELIEVE WHAT WE HAVE DONE THERE. YEAH, WE HAVE ADDED TRI-CITY ANIMAL SHELTERS. OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE JUST SAYS THE WORD POUND. SO IT'S JUST BASICALLY KEEPING IT AS A LITTLE OUTDATED TO SAY POUND. SO LIKE DOG CATCHER, RIGHT? YEAH. ALTHOUGH I STILL GET CALLED THAT OFTEN. BUT THAT'S OKAY. YEAH. SO WE'VE ADDED TRI-CITIES ON A AND B AND WE'LL CONTINUE WITH THAT CONTRACT. I KNOW IT'S WHAT WE CURRENTLY HAVE, AND I KNOW THE THREE SEAT HAS BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS. THERE'S NO POSSIBILITY OF US EVENTUALLY ONE DAY HAVING OUR OWN ANIMAL SHELTER. WE HAVEN'T DISCUSSED IT, BUT I'M SAYING THAT BECAUSE IF THAT SHOULD EVER

[00:50:04]

WELL, HE HAS SOMETHING THAT'S NECESSARY AND THAT'S A, THAT'S A THAT'S A BIG SECTION THAT TAKES UP THE NEXT SEVERAL PAGES. SO IF YOU GO TO PAGE 23, THAT WOULD TAKE US INTO THE NEXT SECTION, WHICH WOULD BE THE APPEALS PROCESS. SECTION. 428. WE HAVE RECOMMENDED REMOVING PROCESS TO BE HEARD BY THE PANEL. AGAIN GOING TO A BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT AND ZONING BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT.

ALL THE APPEALS TO BE ARE HEARD BY THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THE APPELLANT WOULD BE GIVEN 15 DAYS. WE CURRENTLY HAVE THAT AS TEN DAYS, AND WE WOULD. WE ARE ALSO REQUESTING THREE ITEMS FOR THAT APPEAL. IT WOULD BE NEEDED FOR WHEN FILING IT. CURRENT ORDINANCE. JUST LIKE IN THE THAT WE SPOKE ABOUT EARLIER, THE CURRENT ORDINANCE JUST HAS IT IN WRITING. WE HAVE ADDED THREE ITEMS IF NEEDED. IF SAID PERSON WANTS TO APPEAL, WHICH WOULD BE IN WRITING AND POSTAL AS WELL.

IS THERE A REASON FOR GOING FROM 10 TO 15? NO, I DON'T BELIEVE SO. CHAD, I'M CURIOUS. WHEN YOU WERE READING THAT, I REMEMBERED I HADN'T SEEN THIS UNDER DANGEROUS WILD ANIMALS, BUT MAYBE IT'S SOMEWHERE ELSE IN HERE. WHAT ABOUT PEOPLE THAT WANT TO BRING IN? COBRAS AND VENOMOUS SNAKES? I DON'T KNOW. NO. THIS IS. YES. WE HAVE. SO WE HAVE IT COVERED UNDER AND IT'S CURRENTLY IN THE ORDINANCE NOW, IT DOESN'T SAY COBRAS BUT THIS WE HAVE IT. WE HAVE BOAS, PYTHONS, ANACONDA AND ALL FORMS OF POISONOUS WHICH IT ACTUALLY SHOULD SAY VENOMOUS. IT'S VENOMOUS OR CONSTRICTING REPTILES. SO THAT WOULD COVER. IT. JUST NEED TO SAY VENOMOUS SNAKES CAN BE POISONOUS. MR. CHAIRMAN, I WANT TO GO BACK TO THE 15 DAYS OF THE CALENDAR.

DAYS? YES, SIR. ARE YOU SAYING YOU WANT TO ADD A CALENDAR TO THE WORDING IS. WELL, I MEAN, IT'S UP TO THE BODY HERE, BUT BUT I MEAN IT TO ME. IT CLARIFIES IT. SO I HAVE 15 WORKING DAYS AND THAT'S THAT'S AN EASY ADD. IS THAT WHAT Y'ALL WANT. YEAH. MAKE IT DEFINITIVE.

SO WHATEVER GETS YOU THERE QUICKER OKAY. SO WE CAN ADD 15 CALENDAR. ALL RIGHT. SO WE'VE COVERED EVERYTHING EXCEPT THE YOU KNOW WHAT. NOW I DO WANT TO. SEE WHAT PAGE WAS THAT. IT WAS PAGE EIGHT. SO I, I LISTENED TO WHAT YOU ALL WERE SAYING ON PAGE EIGHT. AND YOU SAID THEN THEN WHAT. AND YOU FELT THERE SHOULD BE MORE ADDED. SO WE CAN LOOK INTO THAT AND ADD A LITTLE BIT MORE WORDING. I WOULD CAUTION AGAINST TRYING TO ADD TOO MUCH, BECAUSE WHAT WE HAVE TO REALIZE IS WHEN SOMETHING GETS TO A CERTAIN LEVEL, NO ONE CAN SAY WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I CAN'T SAY WHAT A JUDGE IS GOING TO DO. I CAN'T SAY WHAT ATTORNEYS THAT GET INVOLVED WITH THEY'RE GOING TO DO. THERE'S WE CAN ONLY SAY UP TO A CERTAIN LEVEL WHAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. AND THEN I THINK YOU DID THAT IN, IN THE, IN THE VICIOUS ANIMAL PROCESS. AND I THINK YOU'VE ADDED MORE

[00:55:04]

OKAY. I MEAN, YEAH, YOU KNOW, IF THE WHEN DO YOU THINK THE FIRST. OH WELL I WAS JUST GOING TO GO AHEAD AND TAKE A LOOK AT THAT BECAUSE I KNEW THAT WE WOULD HAVE AN ISSUE WITH THAT. BUT WE CAN START WHEREVER Y'ALL WANT TO. WELL, LET ME START WITH MY QUESTION IN THAT FIRST SENTENCE, 30FT AWAY, AT LEAST 30FT AWAY FROM AN INHABITED DWELLING. NOW WE GOT SOME NEIGHBORHOODS WHERE WE GOT 60, 60 FOOT WIDE LOTS. AND THAT STARTS TO REALLY LIMIT WHERE SOMEBODY MAY HAVE ENOUGH ROOM TO PROVIDE THE REQUIRED SIZE CHICKEN COOP. AND EXERCISE YARD. AND SO WE HAVE TO LOOK CLOSELY AT THAT, BECAUSE AS PEOPLE COME IN AND APPLY, YOU'RE ALMOST GOING TO HAVE TO TAKE AND CHART OUT ON THEIR LOT, THEIR SPECIFIC LOT WHERE THEY'RE AT, BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE TO KEEP IT. YOU'RE BOUND BY THE SIDE YARD REQUIREMENTS FROM THE PROPERTY LINE, AND THEN YOU'VE GOT ON TOP OF THAT, YOU'VE GOT TO BE 50FT AWAY FROM THE RESIDENCE ON EITHER SIDE. SO YOU'RE BOXING IT IN AND CREATING A BOX, AND THIS IS THE ONLY PLACE YOU COULD HAVE IT. OR IN SOME CASES, MAYBE YOU CAN'T HAVE IT AT ALL. SO YOU CAN'T WRITE ALL THAT IN HERE. BUT WHAT I'M WHEN I READ THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH, I SEE A POTENTIAL PROBLEM IN A LOT OF OUR NEIGHBORHOODS BECAUSE THEY DON'T HAVE THIS. THEY'VE GOT A 60 FOOT LOT. AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET 30FT AWAY FROM IT NOW? YOU CAN PUSH THEM TO THE BACK, BUT NOW YOU'VE GOT PEOPLE IN THE BACK AND ARE YOU GOING TO BE. SO IT'S JUST A VERY COMPLEX POINT THAT YOU'LL HAVE TO DEAL WITH WHEN YOU GET THERE. I DON'T THINK WE CAN DO ANYTHING TO DEFINE IT ANY DIFFERENTLY, BECAUSE YOU'RE TELLING THEM WHAT THAT BOX IS GOING TO BE, RIGHT? IT'S GOING TO START OUT AT. AND MAYOR, I WAS GOING TO SAY, SO RIGHT NOW, OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE UNDER SECTION 420 IS THE EXACT SAME WORDING. IT'S FOWL AND RABBITS SHALL BE KEPT IN A SECURE PEN OR ENCLOSURE THAT IS AT LEAST 30FT FROM ANY INHABITED DWELLING. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE CURRENTLY ENFORCING. I KNOW WHEN I GO OUT TO INVESTIGATE, MOST PEOPLE HAVE TO PUT THAT COOP UP RIGHT NEXT TO THEM AND EITHER IN THE CENTER OF THEIR YARD OR CLOSER TO THEIR BACK DOOR, THAT'S GOING TO BE 30FT FOR A LOT OF THEM TO LEFT, RIGHT AND BACK BEHIND THEM. SO YEAH, YOU'RE RIGHT. YOU KNOW, GOING TO ONE SIDE OF THE YARD, IT'S NOT GOING TO BE 30FT AWAY. THAT IS OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE NOW. ALL RIGHT. IS THE PURPOSE OF IT. WE SMELL COMBINATION OF BOTH. YES SIR. YEAH. THE NOISE AND THE SMELL. SO WE'RE GOING TO GO BACK TO. THIS. RIGHT 14. OKAY. SO IF YOU SEE ON THE SCREEN HERE WE HAVE IT OBVIOUSLY IN WRITING HERE THIS IS THE CHART. NEXT SLIDE IS THE ACTUAL CHART. THE SAME CHART. MONSTER. AND I KNOW I SUGGESTED THESE NUMBERS TO BUT FIRST WE DIDN'T ALLOW FOR ANY IF YOU HAD UNDER A QUARTER OF AN ACRE. SO IT WAS ORIGINALLY

[01:00:04]

YEAH. LET ME GIVE THIS TO YOU. YES, MA'AM. DID YOU GET DID YOU GET ONE OF THESE ON THE TABLE THERE? DID YOU GET ONE IN FRONT OF YOU? THAT SHOULD BE THE REVISED. IT'S NOT. IT DOESN'T SHOW IT LIKE THAT, BUT IT IS EFFECTIVELY THE SAME, EXCEPT IT GOES A LITTLE BIT FARTHER.

CORRECT. WITH. YEAH. SO, YOU KNOW OKAY. SO WE RECEIVED THAT. WELL OWNING CHICKENS. I CAN SAY THAT I'D BE MORE COMFORTABLE WITH THAT FIRST NUMBER WERE TEN. BEFORE THEY GO UP TO EIGHT. YEAH EIGHT. I HAD 12. I'M SURE YOUR NEIGHBORS GOT THE. WELL THEY DIDN'T I DIDN'T POSTERS SO THEY DIDN'T. MY NEIGHBORS DIDN'T EVEN KNOW. YEAH. IT REALLY DOESN'T MATTER WHAT THIS CHART SAY BECAUSE I KNOW WE'RE GOING TO END UP COMING TO SOMETHING DIFFERENT THAN OTHER THAN WHAT'S OUT THERE ANYWAY. SO IT DOESN'T MATTER. I MEAN, I DON'T KNOW WHERE THEY ARE. PRINTED UP A BUNCH OF PAPERS OF RED OAKS. ARE YOU ABLE TO PULL UP RED OAKS ON HERE? BECAUSE I PRINTED OFF SOME PAPER. SURE. WHO AND WHO ON THIS COUNCIL HAS CHICKENS? ROOSTERS? YEAH. YOU GOT CHICKENS? WHO HAS NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE CHICKENS AND ROOSTERS NEXT DOOR. SO I USED TO I WENT, OKAY, SO I JUST WANT US TO BE CONSCIENTIOUS OF EVERYBODY, NOT JUST. YEAH, YEAH. IN MY, MY THERE ARE SEVERAL NEIGHBORS THAT HAVE THEM. THE ONLY ONES YOU KNOW, THAT HAVE THEM ARE THE ONES THAT HAVE ROOSTERS. THAT'S TRUE. SO THE OTHER BLOCK SOMEWHERE, CORRECT. THE CHICKENS. THEY'LL DO A LITTLE SQUAWK REAL QUICK WHEN THEY'RE LAYING OUTSIDE OF THAT. THEY'RE USUALLY THEY'RE INSIDE THERE TOO. IT'S BEEN LAYING INSIDE UNLESS THEY'RE LAYING THEM IN YOUR YARD AND. YOU ONLY HAVE A HANDLE FOR WHITE NOISE. SO I CAN'T HEAR IT ON MY LINE. DOGS. ALL I CAN HEAR THE CAR AND I'M ALMOST ON TWO ACRES, SO I HAVE. HE'S HIDING. SORRY, I KNEW I NEEDED EARLIER, I KNEW I DID THAT, THANK YOU. I THOUGHT MAYBE THIS WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I'M SORRY TO WALK ON. EXCUSE ME.

THAT Y'ALL MIGHT WANT TO BE ABLE TO CONSIDER. RED OAK IS A SMALLER CITY, SOMEWHAT COMPARABLE TO US. YOU KNOW, I REALLY I WAS LOOKING AT DIFFERENT CITIES, JUST TRYING TO FIGURE SOMETHING OUT SOME WAY THAT WE CAN DO SOME CONSENSUS ON THIS. SO. NEXT QUESTION. SURE.

SO OKAY. AND I KNOW I'VE ASKED THIS IN THE MEETING, BUT I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO JUST START FROM FRESH AND FIND OUT. I KNOW YOU HAD A HIGH NUMBER OF CALLS, AND IT WOULD SEEM TO ME THAT THE OBJECTIVE WOULD BE TO MAKE THIS CONSEQUENTIAL FOR THOSE WHO ARE REPEAT OFFENDERS OR CONSTANTLY HAVING CALLS ON, INSTEAD OF MAKING A BROAD GENERAL TO KIND OF BLANKET EVERYBODY. THOSE WHO ARE CONSISTENTLY HAVING THE CALLS COME IN OR COMPLAINED ON, I THINK WE SHOULD BE. I WOULD RECOMMEND THAT WE LOOK AT SOMETHING TO ADDRESS THAT. THOSE REPEAT OFFENDERS, OR PEOPLE WHO ARE CONSTANTLY HAVING ISSUES WITH CHICKENS AND THEIR CHICKENS GETTING OUT INSTEAD OF MAKING IT PUNITIVE FOR EVERYBODY. WHAT DO YOU THINK? SO I THINK IT'S GOING TO CREATE MORE OF A PROBLEM. I THINK THAT WE'RE TO THE POINT. KEEP IN MIND, WE'RE A SMALL COMMUNITY. WE'RE NOT DESOTO. WE DON'T HAVE ALL THAT LAND, AND PEOPLE HAVE ACRES AND ALL THAT STUFF WITH SMALL COMMUNITY. SO WHAT MAY AFFECT 1 OR 2 PEOPLE OVER THERE IS GOING TO AFFECT 5 OR 6 HOUSEHOLDS OVER HERE, AND WE HAVE TO KEEP THAT IN MIND, AND WE HAVE TO KEEP SOME TYPE OF CONTROL ON WHAT'S GOING ON WITHIN THE CITY. AND HONESTLY, I BELIEVE THAT A LOT OF THINGS AREN'T GETTING REPORTED AS FAR AS WITH THE CHICKENS, BECAUSE NEIGHBORS ARE AFRAID TO CALL. I KNOW A HOUSE RIGHT NOW. I'M NOT GOING TO SAY THE STREET. THE WHOLE BACKYARD IS FILLED WITH COOPS WITH ROOSTERS IN IT, AND

[01:05:03]

CONTROL, I AGREE, WHAT'S GOING ON IN THE CITY, YOU SEE RED OAK AGAIN, A SMALLER COMMUNITY LIKE US, THEY'RE NOT. EVEN IF I READ THIS CORRECTLY, I READ SO MANY OF THEM. KEEPING OF ROOSTERS IS PROHIBITED. THEY'RE NOT EVEN LETTING YOU KEEP ROOSTERS BECAUSE THEY CAUSE PROBLEMS. YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SAYING YOU CAN HAVE CHICKENS. HERE ARE THE PARAMETERS, BUT NO ROOSTERS. AND THEN SOME CITIES ARE SAYING YOU CAN HAVE A ROOSTER, BUT JUST ONE AND THAT'S IT. WE HAVE TO PUT SOME TYPE OF CONTROLS IN EFFECT TO WHAT YOU'RE SAYING THAT I'M LOOKING AT SECTION 428, KEEPING A BACKYARD HENS AND ABOUT THREE LINES DOWN IT SAYS THE KEEPING OF ROOSTERS OR ANY OTHER FOWL IS PROHIBITED. SHOW ME WHICH ONE IS IT. 428 428 A. AND IT'S THE I THINK IT SHOULD, IT SHOULD. IT JUST SAID THE KEEPING OF ROOSTERS IS PROHIBITED, IS PROHIBITED. NOT ANY OTHER FOWL.

OKAY, BUT BUT MY REAL POINT IS WE'RE SAYING YOU CAN'T HAVE ROOSTERS IN DARGAVILLE, RIGHT? THEY'RE RIGHT. THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING. BUT I MEAN WE'RE WE'RE HERE. IT'S NOT UP TO US.

THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SUGGESTING. OKAY. WELL WE'LL GET BACK TO THAT. I JUST WHEN YOU STARTED TALKING ABOUT THE ROOSTERS, I REMEMBER READING THAT I EVEN HAVE AN UNDERLINE THERE BECAUSE THAT WAS GOING TO BE A QUESTION. OKAY. NOW I NOTICE ON THE RED OAK AND I KNOW WE'RE NOT TRYING TO GO, YOU KNOW, POINT BY POINT, BUT I'M WONDERING IF SOMEBODY, LET'S SAY SOMEBODY HAS A COOP IN DUNCANVILLE ALREADY AND LET'S SAY THEY'VE GOT SIX CHICKENS AND THEY'RE ALLOWED TO HAVE SIX CHICKENS BY THE NEW GUIDELINES, AND THEY'VE GOT A COOP AND THEY'VE GOT A RUN AND THEY'VE GOT ALL THE SETBACKS PROPER. WHY DO THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SIX FOOT FENCE? AND HERE'S WHY I'M ASKING. BECAUSE WHEN YOU TAKE THAT PERSON, LET'S SAY SOMEBODY LIVES OVER ON AND I'M NOT PICKING ON NEIGHBORS BUT LIVES OVER ON SOUTH LOOP. AND THEY GOT A LITTLE BITTY OLD WOOD FRAME HOUSES, TINY YARDS AND PROBABLY LOW INCOME. AND THEY'RE TRYING TO SAVE SOME MONEY ON EGGS.

MAYBE THEY SELL THEM. AND I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S LEGAL OR NOT, BUT MAYBE THEY'RE SELLING THE EGGS. THE FENCES ARE EXPENSIVE. SO IF THEY GOT A FOUR FOOT FENCE UP NOW THEY GOT TO PAY SOMEBODY TO COME IN AND SURROUND THEIR ENTIRE BACKYARD. THAT'S REALLY TOUGH ON PEOPLE.

SO I WANT TO KNOW WHAT IT IS BECAUSE RED OAK AGAIN, I KNOW WE'RE NOT GOING POINT BY POINT WITH RED OAK, BUT THEY DON'T REQUIRE A FENCE OTHER THAN THE ENCLOSURES WE ALREADY REQUIRE.

SO IF WE ASSUME YOU'RE KEEPING TO THE LETTER OF THE LAW AND YOUR CHICKENS AREN'T AT LARGE, THEN I'M NOT SURE THAT THE EXPENSE INCURRED ON SOMEONE TO GO FROM A FOUR FOOT FENCE OR NO FENCE TO A SIX FOOT FENCE ALL THE WAY AROUND IS PRETTY. IT'S PRETTY HURTFUL TO PEOPLE. I CAN SPEAK TO THAT. ACTUALLY. THE SIX FOOT FENCES ARE RECOMMENDED IN MORE RURAL AREAS TO PROTECT AGAINST PREDATORS, THE TYPES OF PREDATORS WE DON'T HAVE, AND A FOUR FOOT FENCE WOULD BE FINE.

IF YOU'RE JUST TALKING ABOUT CONTAINING THE CHICKENS. SIX FOOT, YOU KNOW HOW TO KEEP A BOBCAT OUT. YOU KNOW, MAYBE A COYOTE, THINGS LIKE THAT. BUT THAT'S IS RECOMMENDED FOR RURAL AREAS. SO WHEN WE GET TO THAT POINT, WE CAN TALK ABOUT IT A LITTLE BIT MORE. BUT THAT WAS A LITTLE TROUBLING TO ME BECAUSE BECAUSE AGAIN, I, I, I'VE SEEN THE PEOPLE THAT THAT ARE TAKING ADVANTAGE OF HAVING THAT, THAT THE BENEFIT OF HAVING CHICKENS AND THE EGGS AND ESPECIALLY WITH EGGS, THE PRICE GOING UP BECAUSE THEY ALREADY HAD CHICKENS BEFORE THE PRICE WENT UP. NOW THERE'S EVEN MORE REASON TO HAVE IT. AND SO WHATEVER MONEY THEY'RE SAVING, WE MAY, YOU KNOW, DOUBLE, TRIPLE, QUADRUPLE THE COST OF THEM MAINTAINING THEIR CHICKENS BY PUTTING THE COST OF BUILDING A FENCE AROUND THE PROPERTY. IF WE DON'T HAVE REAL GOOD REASON TO HAVE THE FENCE, AND THAT'S WHEN WE'LL BE LOOKING AT. SO THIS, THIS WHOLE INITIAL THING, YOU KNOW, IT WAS IT WAS PUT TOGETHER BEFORE I STEPPED IN. AND SO I'M THE FOURTH ASSISTANT CHIEF TO DEAL WITH THIS RIGHT IN THE LAST. IN THE LAST. I HOPE SO I'M GOING TO SPEAK FOR THAT PERSON THAT I'M THE NEIGHBOR OF THE CHICKEN PERSON, OKAY. AND I'M TRYING TO MOVE TO DUNCANVILLE. AND SO AS WE SAY, LOOKING AT OUR VISION OUT, I MIGHT NOT WANT TO MOVE HERE IF I HAVE TO LOOK AT YOUR

[01:10:05]

THAT'S WHAT YOU SAY. LOOK AT THE CHICKENS. DON'T LOOK AT YOUR GOATS, YOUR CHICKENS. BUT THE FENCE ISN'T A SOLID FENCE. YOU PUT A SIX FOOT WOODEN CHAIN LINK FENCE UP, SO YOU'RE STILL GOING TO HAVE TO LOOK AT MY CHICKENS. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE SAYING. CHAIN LINK. IS THAT OR DOES IT DEFINE IT. IT JUST SAYS SIX FOOT. OKAY. I THINK THAT WHOEVER PUT THIS TOGETHER ORIGINALLY WENT WITH WHAT A LOT OF CITIES WERE DOING. SO THE LAST FEW DAYS I'VE BEEN GOING READING DIFFERENT CITIES, AND A LOT OF THEM HAVE THE 6 FOOT OR 8 FOOT FENCE ON IT. SO I THINK THAT'S JUST SOMETHING THAT THEY START PUTTING ON THERE. AND SO EVERYONE'S JUST THE ONES THAT ARE THAT ARE ADDING THIS ARE JUST ADDING THAT TO IT, YOU KNOW. DO YOU KNOW, ARE THEY ADDING SOLID SCREENING FENCE? I DIDN'T SEE ANY WORDING ABOUT THAT. I DON'T REMEMBER THAT. BUT WE KNOW WHY WE'RE HERE. SO WE KNOW THAT SOME OF THIS IS GOING TO GET CHANGED UP AGAIN IF THAT'S NOT WHAT YOU ALL WANT. OKAY, MR. KOONTZ, I WANT TO GET BACK TO COUNCILWOMAN GOODIN'S POINT IS, SO THE 700 OR SO I THINK, CALLS THAT Y'ALL RECEIVED ABOUT FOUL WHERE THEY. BECAUSE SOMEONE SAW CHICKENS RUNNING AROUND THE NEIGHBORHOOD? OR WERE THEY CALLED BECAUSE THERE WERE OFFENSIVE ODORS COMING OVER THE FENCE? WERE THEY CALLS BECAUSE THE ROOSTER WAS CROWING? WHAT WAS THE NAME? BECAUSE I KIND OF WANT TO GET TO WHAT WHAT ARE THE ISSUES. SO AND LET'S FOCUS ON THAT INSTEAD OF CREATING SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BLANKET EVERYBODY THAT OWNS CHICKENS. THAT'S KIND OF WHAT I'M INTERESTED IN. SO I KNOW Y'ALL HAVE ASKED ME THIS QUESTION SEVERAL TIMES, AND I CANNOT TELL YOU WHAT ALL THE CALLS ARE FOR. LIKE I SAID, THEY DID SAY THAT THE FIRST TIME. IT COULD BE ANYTHING. IT COULD HAVE BEEN SOMEBODY JUST CALLING TO SAY, HEY, I WANT TO KNOW IF I CAN HAVE CHICKENS. WHAT WE'RE SAYING IS THESE ARE THE AMOUNT OF CALLS THAT CAME IN CONCERNING CHICKENS, FOWL, YOU KNOW, OUR HANDS, OUR ROOSTERS, THOSE THAT WORRY. SO I CAN'T SAY, BUT I CAN SAY THIS SPEAKING WITH WITH CHAD, THE MAJORITY OF THOSE CALLS ARE NOISE. AND SO AND SO. THAT BEING SAID, BECAUSE WE DO HAVE A LOUD AND RAUCOUS NOISE ORDINANCE. AND WOULD THAT BE COVERED UNDER THAT, THAT ORDINANCE? THE NOISE, THAT RUCKUS NOISE, I MEAN, IF, IF, IF, IF IT'S CREATING A NUISANCE, IF IT'S LOUD NOISE. YEAH. BUT IT'S STILL NOT GOING TO ADDRESS THE PROBLEM. I MEAN, YOU HAVE TO ADDRESS THE, THE ROOT OF THE PROBLEM AND THAT'S US NEEDING TO CONTROL KIND OF THE NUMBER OF FOWL THAT'S IN THE CITY. SO LET ME REFERENCE THAT ORDINANCE. IT'S, IT'S EITHER AT THE DISCRETION OF THE OFFICER, WHICH IS GOING TO VARY. IT WILL NOT BE CONSISTENT. RIGHT. OR JUST WE HAVE ADOPTED THE ORDINANCE WITH A INCLUSION OF THE STATE LAW THAT HAD A PRETTY HIGH DECIBEL LEVEL READING AND NOTHING ELSE.

SO THAT PUTS IT SOLELY AT THE DISCRETION OF THE OFFICER, WHICH IS GOING TO MAKE IT TREMENDOUSLY DIFFICULT TO DETERMINE. YOU KNOW, ROOSTERS ARE ONE THING, BUT IF YOU GOT A BUNCH OF CHICKENS CLUCKING, DOES THAT, AND THE OPINION OF THE BECAUSE THAT GUY COULD HAVE CHICKENS OUT IN THE COUNTRY SOMEWHERE, THAT OFFICER COULD LIVE OUT THERE AND HE HAS CHICKENS. HE DOESN'T CARE. ANOTHER CHICKEN, ANOTHER GUY DOESN'T LIKE THE CHICKENS. AND HE SAYS, YEAH, I THINK IT'S TOO MUCH NOISE. SO THAT'S GOING TO BE A PROBLEM. AND THEN WITH THE WITH THE NOISE, WE STILL NEED SOMEBODY TO BE AN OFFICIAL COMPLAINT. HERE'S THE THING. I DON'T IF YOU HAVE 12 CHICKENS AND YOU'RE ONLY SUPPOSED TO HAVE NINE, I DON'T NEED A COMPLAINT. THERE IN VIOLATION. REMEMBER I SAID A LOT OF PEOPLE KEEP QUIET AND DON'T SAY ANYTHING, YOU KNOW? SO I THINK THIS IS NECESSARY. I DON'T THINK THIS IS BEING PUNITIVE AT ALL TO INDIVIDUALS IN THE CITY THAT'S OWNING THE CHICKENS. I THINK THAT WE SHOULD HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE TO KIND OF CONTROL WHAT'S GOING ON IN THIS SMALL COMMUNITY. WE ASK. WE'VE GOT KIND OF A AN ANSWER BACK ABOUT THE LEVEL OF COMPLAINTS THAT ARE RELATIVE TO CHICKEN NOISE, NOT ROOSTERS. WHAT ABOUT THE APPROXIMATE NUMBER OF CASES THAT YOU GO OUT ON, WHERE THE CHICKENS ARE BEING NEGLECTED OR ABUSED AND NOT BEING KEPT IN A HEALTHY CONDITION? THEY'RE WITHOUT WATER OR WITHOUT FOOD OR

[01:15:03]

[01:20:01]

[01:25:02]

SO THAT WAY WE CAN HAVE THE DATA NEEDED TO MAKE IT. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA, ME PERSONALLY, TO BE ABLE TO SAY I AM JUSTIFIED IN VOTING IN FAVOR OF THIS, BECAUSE I CAN SEE THAT THE MAJORITY OF THE CALLS ARE ROOSTER NOISE OR ROOSTER NOISE. SO CAN I ASK YOU A QUESTION? 700 OF THOSE CALLS WERE TO SAY 600 OF THEM ARE DEPENDENT UPON A ROOSTER MAKING NOISE. THEN I CAN SAY, OKAY, WE DO HAVE A ROOSTER NOISE PROBLEM. WE DON'T NEED TO HAVE ROOSTERS. I CAN'T SAY THAT IN THIS MOMENT BECAUSE I DON'T I KNOW WE HAVE NEARLY 800 CALLS, BUT IT COULD BE SOMEBODY THAT'S AGGRAVATED WITH THEIR NEIGHBOR. IT COULD BE SOMETHING THAT'S GOING ON THAT'S REALLY NOT A VIOLATION. YOU DON'T KNOW. I DON'T KNOW. ARE YOU NOT? IS SO THERE ISN'T ANYTHING IN THE ORDINANCE AS FAR AS THE FILE THAT YOU AGREE WITH. AND YOU JUST WOULD RATHER JUST JUST LEAVE THAT ALONE. AND EVERYBODY HAVE THE NUMBER OF CHICKENS AND ROOSTERS THAT THEY IS THAT IS THAT WHERE WE ARE? I'M, I'M SAYING I WANT BETTER INFORMATION SO I CAN HELP DETERMINE A SOLUTION FOR IT. I'M NOT IN A POSITION ME BUT THE REST OF THE COUNCIL. MAYBE THIS IS JUST ME. I DON'T HAVE ENOUGH DATA TO SUPPORT MR. MCBURNETT. AND I HEAR EXACTLY WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. BUT I ALSO THINK THAT'S WHERE THE MAYOR AND CHIEF ARE GOING IN THIS TO GET SOMETHING INTO PLACE. YOU CAN ALWAYS CHANGE IT. YOU CAN MAKE AN ADJUSTMENT TO IT. BUT THAT'S I THINK THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE ASKING FOR. LET'S JUST GIVE A GUIDELINE INTO PLACE. AND IF WE DECIDE THAT THE CHICKENS, THAT IS A MINIMUM AND WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT DIRECTION AND THE ISSUES ONE THAT CALL VOLUME I THINK IS GOING TO GO DOWN. OKAY. AND SO IF IT IS, THAT DECISION IS GOING TO HELP, I THINK NARROW DOWN WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT IN TERMS OF PROBLEM, BECAUSE I THINK THE MAJORITY OF THE CALLS WILL PROBABLY RELATE TO WHAT ROOSTERS. IT'S VERY CRITICAL. I WAS GOING TO SAY I AGREE WITH THE COUNCIL MEMBER, GOODEN. I LIKE EVERYTHING UP UNTIL THIS POINT, BUT I KNOW WHEN I WAS WORKING WE WOULD HAVE STUDIES, YOU KNOW, FOR SAY, SIX MONTHS, LIKE WE'RE SPECIFICALLY TARGETING HEART ATTACKS. WE NEED TO KNOW, YOU KNOW, AGE, ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. SO I THINK WE COULD ASK TO HAVE THAT ONE. SO ALL THE OFFICERS KNOW WE'RE TARGETING THAT. THEY GET THAT KIND OF CALL. THEY CAN SPECIAL NOTE IT OR TAG IT OR WHATEVER TO GIVE SOME DATA OVER MAYBE SIX MONTHS, EIGHT MONTHS BECAUSE YEAH, THAT'S I'M IT'S NOT ENOUGH. I DON'T EVEN KNOW WHICH WAY TO GO.

I UNDERSTAND OKAY. I THINK OUR PURPOSE HERE TODAY IS TO GO THROUGH THE WHOLE THE WHOLE DOCUMENT AND THEN WE AS A COUNCIL CAN TALK ABOUT WEEDING THINGS OUT OR, OR FOR THOSE THAT SAY, I'M I'M NOT WILLING TO MAKE A DECISION AT THIS POINT. SO I'M GOING TO HAVE TO SAY NO, WE CAN WE CAN KIND OF GET THAT, THAT, THAT VIBE FROM EVERYBODY. SO WE KNOW WHERE WE STAND. IN THE MEANTIME, DON'T FORGET THAT WE'VE KICKED THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD, NOT NECESSARILY THE NEWER COUNCIL MEMBERS, BUT WE KICKED THIS CAN DOWN THE ROAD FOR THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ANIMAL CONTROL FOR GOING ON THREE YEARS. YES, SIR. AND WE DON'T NEED TO MAKE A RASH JUDGMENT BECAUSE I'M CONCERNED ABOUT THE COST, THE IMPACT, THE PEOPLE THAT HAVE THESE CHICKENS, I REALLY AM. BUT I THINK I THINK THERE'S A I THINK THERE'S A PLACE WHERE WE CAN MEET ON THIS.

AND TO MR. BURNETT'S CHOICE, WE CAN ALWAYS MAKE CHANGES AND WE CAN EVEN MAYBE REFINE A METHOD WITHIN THE POLICE DEPARTMENT IN TRACKING THE CALLS TO ASK QUESTIONS THAT MAY GIVE US MORE OF THE INFORMATION THAT YOU ALL ARE LOOKING FOR ABOUT, SPECIFICALLY, HOW MANY OF THESE CALLS ARE FOR THE THINGS LIKE THAT WOULD MAKE US THINK WE NEED TO PUT A SIX FOOT FENCE UP, AND RIGHT NOW I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO PUT A SIX FOOT FENCE SO THAT I'M KIND OF PIECING THROUGH THIS, TRYING TO GET TO AN END GAME, BECAUSE I COMMITTED THAT. I WOULD READ THIS AND STUDY IT IN YOUR OFFICE. AND I SAID, I'M REALLY GOING TO TAKE IT SERIOUS THIS TIME BECAUSE WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING. AND BUT WE DON'T NEED TO DO EVERYTHING. OKAY. AND, AND ASSISTANT CHIEF WILCOX IS TELLING US IF YOU DON'T LIKE IT, TAKE IT OUT. OKAY. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'RE HERE FOR. SO IF THERE'S NOT ANY OTHER SPECIFIC QUESTIONS ON THE CHART WHERE WE'RE AT NOW, OR DO YOU HAVE

[01:30:02]

THEN I THINK WHAT WE'RE GOING TO WHAT. 420 A YES, SIR. AND THEN IT'LL BE CLEAR AGAIN IN THAT FIRST PARAGRAPH. IT'S A IT'S A STATEMENT BANNING ROOSTERS IN THE CITY OF DUNCANVILLE. AND THAT'S. YEAH. AND THAT'S WHAT WE WERE REVISING. OKAY, JUST TO BE CLEAR. ALL RIGHT. SO ANYBODY ELSE GOT A QUESTION ABOUT A NO, I WON'T BE. MR. CHAMBERLAIN. YOU CAN GO AHEAD. OKAY? OKAY. YEAH.

SO SECTION 428 B, THIS PERTAINS TO THE APPLYING FOR A PERMIT. IT'S A NONREFUNDABLE FEE. WE I DON'T WANT TO JUMP TOO MUCH, BUT THAT WAS ANOTHER QUESTION ABOUT WHAT THE FEE WOULD BE. AND THAT WOULD BE $75 FOR THE PERMIT. THAT'S AN ANNUAL FEE. THAT IS I BROUGHT THE AGAIN. BUT SO HERE'S THE MASTER FEE SCHEDULE INSTEAD. WELCOME. RIGHT. YES. YEAH. THAT I BELIEVE COUNCIL APPROVED IT BEFORE. SO OKAY. WE WANT TO GO. HERE AND NEEDS TO GET A PIECE OF CANDY. THANK YOU. YOU HAVE ACTUAL. AND. YOU CAN SEE WHERE IT SAYS. HERE'S THE $75. SO THERE'S LIVESTOCK THERE. IT IS LIVESTOCK. SO IT WOULD BE IT WOULD BE UNDER LIVESTOCK.

LIVESTOCK AND FOWL TEND TO GO TOGETHER. BUT THIS IS SOMETHING THAT WAS APPROVED ALREADY. BUT IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE I MEAN IT COULD BE ADJUSTED TO SOMETHING BEING PUT IN THERE FOR FOWLS AND RABBIT $10 OR SOMETHING, OR I THINK I PREFER THAT, YOU KNOW, I. BECAUSE I AGREE, $75. THAT'S A LOT TO PAY TO HAVE A CHICKEN IN YOUR BACKYARD. THAT'S THAT'S A LOT. OKAY. AND AGAIN, IS THIS AN ANNUAL FEE. YES. YES. YEAH. BUT YOU PROPOSE NO FEE AT ALL I MEAN WELL I NOT QUITE. OH ACROSS THE BOARD. WHAT I WAS SUGGESTING THAT FOR THE PEOPLE THAT ARE HERE RIGHT NOW BECAUSE I WOULD EXPECT THAT OVER THE NEXT FIVE YEARS WE'RE GOING TO SEE A MASSIVE INCREASE IN PEOPLE HAVING CHICKENS IN THEIR BACKYARD. OKAY? KEEP THEM WITHIN THE RULES. I THINK WE'RE GOING TO SEE AN INCREASE. WHAT I'M SAYING IS THE PEOPLE THAT TO THIS POINT, SOME PEOPLE MAY HAVE BEEN DOING THIS FOR 10 OR 15 YEARS, AND ALL OF A SUDDEN WE'RE GOING TO CHARGE THEM $75. I'D SAY GET A PERMIT COMPLETED SO WE KNOW WHO THEY ARE. SO WE HAVE A DATABASE, BUT THAT SOME FOR SOME TIME PERIOD. I'M ASKING THE COUNCIL AGAIN TO CONSIDER A WAIVING OF THE FEE FOR PEOPLE THAT COME IN WITHIN A CERTAIN PERIOD OF TIME THAT ALREADY HAVE CHICKENS AND JUST NOT HIT THEM WITH THIS FEE THE FIRST TIME, THEN WE CAN COME BACK AND ESTABLISH A FEE FOR RABBITS AND FOWL. THAT'S SOMETHING LESS THAN LIVESTOCK, YOU KNOW, MAYBE A MORE REASONABLE FEE. IT DOESN'T TAKE AWAY THE BENEFITS OF WHAT THEY'RE TRYING TO ACCOMPLISH. MANY OF THESE PEOPLE ARE JUST TRYING TO KEEP THEIR GROCERY BILLS DOWN. SO THAT'S JUST A SUGGESTION. SO I CAN TELL YOU THAT WE JUST WE JUST WANT THE PERMIT. WE JUST WANT THEM TO HAVE THE PERMIT SO WE CAN HAVE THE DOCUMENTATION. CAN YOU MIGHT BE THE ANSWER THERE. THERE'S NO FEE. AND IF I CAN EXPAND ON THAT GRACE PERIOD, YOU'RE ALSO LOOKING AT PEOPLE THAT HAVE ESTABLISHED COOPS AND RUNS THAT MIGHT HAVE TO CHANGE THEM, MOVE THEM MORE COST AND THE TIME IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO DO IT. OKAY.

AND HOW LONG IS THAT GRACE TREE DO WE ALLOW THAT? AND I'M GOOD WITH NO FEE PERSONALLY. YEAH. ME TOO. OTHERS. SO WE SAID NO FEE FOR YEAR ONE. IS THAT WHAT WE SAID? NO FEE. WELL WE TALKED ABOUT THAT TOO. THE BUDGET TIME. WE CAN TALK ABOUT THE ASSISTANT CHIEF JUST JUST SAID THEY WANT THE PERMIT. NOW, YOU KNOW, THERE'S ADMINISTRATION COST IN DOING THAT. BUT WE HAVE OTHER THINGS WE DON'T CHARGE FEES FOR. BUT WE PERFORM ADMINISTRATIVE DUTIES RELATIVE TO THOSE THINGS.

[01:35:07]

OKAY, I AGREE WITH NOBODY. I THINK I GOT ENOUGH NODDING HEADS. SO THE SORRY EXCUSE ME ONE SECOND HERE. SO WHEN I'M LOOKING AT THE FEE SCHEDULE, I SEE CATS OVER THE LIMIT. IT'S $10 FOR THE DOGS OVER THE LIMIT OF $10 PER YEAR. SO THEY'RE GOING TO BE FOR CHICKENS.

CHICKENS OVER THE LIMIT. WELL I DON'T I DON'T KNOW THAT WE NEED TO ADDRESS THAT RIGHT NOW, BECAUSE WE'VE ESTABLISHED THAT IT'S GOING TO BE REALLY DIFFICULT FOR NEIGHBORS OR POLICE OFFICERS OR ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICERS IN COVERED COOPS TO REALLY DIG INTO THAT.

AND UNLESS WE SAW THAT ON A GOOD DAY, YOU SOMEHOW GOT TO SEE THERE WERE 25 CHICKENS THERE. I DON'T THINK WE NEED TO BE. YEAH, I DON'T THINK WE WANT TO DO THAT. THAT'S PART OF THE BUDGET PROCESS. BUT WHEN I SEE THIS, I'M LOOKING AHEAD AND IT'S LIKE SOMEBODY SAY, I'LL PAY $10 TO HAVE A CHICKEN. THEY SEEM TO BE CONSISTENT. NUMBER TWO, THERE IS AFTER THE COMPLETING A PERMIT APPLICATION IS PROVIDING FOR FOUR PLANS AND SIDE ELEVATIONS FOR THE PROPOSED ANIMAL HOUSING ENCLOSURE. WOULD THAT BE A SITE A SITE ELEVATION OR IS IT TRULY SIDE WITH A D SITE SIDE? SO.

GRANTED, IT'S BEEN MANY MOONS AGO THAT I WAS PERMIT TECH, BUT BACK THEN WE ALLOWED HAND-DRAWN AS LONG AS THE DIMENSIONS WERE CORRECT ON IT. SO ARE YOU REQUESTING A SPECIFIC TYPE OF.

PLANS? OR THESE CAN BE THE ONES WHERE SOMEONE HAS A NOTEBOOK PAPER AND THEY HAVE THEIR MEASUREMENTS DRAWN IN ELEVATION. ARE YOU ASKING FOR NAPKINS WITH GRAVY? I'M TELLING YOU, GO GET THEM. YOU'RE WANTING PROFESSIONAL OR CAN THEY? I CAN JUST DRAW A DIAGRAM OF WHAT THEY'RE PROPOSING. I DON'T THINK WELL, I DON'T THINK WE NEED PROFESSIONAL. I WOULD AGREE WITH THAT BECAUSE THE ADDITIONAL ADDITIONAL COSTS AND YEAH, IT'S JUST ADDITIONAL COSTS. JUST KEEP IT SIMPLE, OKAY. AND THEY CAN JUST PROVIDE THEM WHAT THEY HAVE. THEY'RE GOING TO TALK TO HIM ANYWAY. HE'S GOT TO LOOK AT WHAT THEY HAVE ANYWAY I MEAN SO WELL THESE DAYS MOST PEOPLE'S KIDS CAN GO ON A COMPUTER AND GET INTO A BASIC DRAWING. THEY DIDN'T HAVE THAT. OKAY. TO PROVIDE A SITE DRAWING SHOWING THE PROPOSED LOCATION FOR THE ANIMAL HOUSING ENCLOSURE THAT INCLUDES ALL THE PROPERTY LINES, BUILDING LINES, SETBACKS, AND OTHER STRUCTURES LOCATED ON THE PROPERTY. PROVIDING WRITTEN, NOTARIZED AUTHORIZATION FROM THE PROPERTY OWNER OR ALLOWING BACKYARD CHICKENS IF THE PERSON OTHER THAN THE OWNER OF THE PROPERTY. IF THEY'RE NOT THE APPLICANT. ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT A RENTER? CORRECT. OKAY. PROVIDE A ONE TIME PROOF OF COMPLETION OF AN EDUCATIONAL COURSE APPROVED BY THE DEPARTMENT ON BACKYARD CARE. PLEASE CHECK OUR WEBSITE. I HAVE DONE SOME RESEARCH HERE ON EDUCATIONAL COURSES THAT. ARE LISTED HERE.

FROM THE LEAST EXPENSIVE TO THE MOST EXPENSIVE. AND THESE ARE ALL ONLINE COURSES. SELF-PACED COURSE. AS YOU CAN SEE, IT GOES ALL THE WAY ALONG. ALMOST TO $100. THEY THEY DO HAVE FREE COURSES, ONLINE COURSES. I DON'T KNOW HOW Y'ALL FEEL ABOUT THAT. IF WE SAID, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN DO THE FREE COURSE AND PROVIDE A COMPLETION CERTIFICATE TO US. I MEAN, YOU KNOW. DO THOSE FREE COURSES OFFER CERTIFICATES WHEN YOU'VE COMPLETED IT? CORRECT? YEAH. THEY DO. YEAH. ALEX LOOKED AT ONE. ALEX. TAMMY LOOKED AT ONE THAT DIDN'T. THERE WASN'T A AT THE END. YEAH, I'LL HAVE TO CHECK WHICH ONE YOU LOOKED AT AGAIN. AND AGAIN. THIS IS SOMETHING THAT THAT WE'RE SUGGESTING BUT NOT ALL CITIES REQUIRE THIS OKAY. I DIDN'T EVEN SEE I DIDN'T SEE THAT IN RED OAKS. AND THAT'S BASICALLY JUST LIKE WE WERE SAYING, YOU KNOW, THE AMOUNT OF CHICKENS THAT ARE

[01:40:02]

MAYBE WHEN THEY GET THEIR PERMIT. YEAH, THAT MIGHT SUPPLEMENT FOR HAVING TO PAY 15, JUST GIVING THEM SOME EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL INSTEAD OF HAVING THEM IN A RESOURCE THAT I DON'T. THAT'S BETTER. YEAH. WE'LL SEE ABOUT THAT OKAY. KIND OF JUST GOES BACK TO WHAT WE WERE JUST TALKING ABOUT IT. THERE WOULD BE A SITE INSPECTION, JUST VERIFYING COMPLIANCE. ALL THESE REQUIREMENTS. THE PERMIT MAY BE ISSUED, REISSUED WITHOUT INSPECTION AS LONG AS THERE'S NO THERE HAS NOT BEEN ANY VERIFIED COMPLAINTS OR VIOLATIONS. AND THE 12 MONTHS THEY CAN JUST CONTACT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND HAVE THE PERMIT REISSUED.

AND, YOU KNOW, THAT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT I WOULD HAVE TO BE IN CONTACT WITH KRISTEN WITH.

YOU KNOW, IF I'M GETTING MULTIPLE COMPLAINTS FROM ONE HOUSE, OBVIOUSLY, YOU KNOW, SHE WOULD HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED BEFORE SHE. REISSUES THAT PERMIT. SO A CHANCE FOR A SECOND. SO AS FAR AS THE PERMIT, WHEN WE'RE TALKING ABOUT PEOPLE THAT HAVE EXISTING COOPS AND ALL THAT AND THEY SUBMIT THEIR THEIR APPLICATION, HAVE THE DRAWINGS AND IT DOESN'T MEET THE QUALIFICATIONS, SO ARE THEY GOING TO HAVE TO COME BACK AND SUBMIT NEW APPLICATIONS SHOWING WE'RE GOING TO MOVE OUR UNIT COOP HERE AND MOVE OUR FENCING AROUND SO IT COMPLIES. AND THEN ARE WE GOING TO BUILD SOMETHING IN THAT WE ALLOW A GRACE PERIOD FOR THOSE TYPE OF SITUATIONS WHERE, YEAH, I THINK TO BE FAIR, WE WOULD, YOU KNOW, GIVE THEM TIME TO AT LEAST GET THAT CORRECTED AND THEN COME BACK AND WE'VE GOT SOMETHING WE NEED TO PUT IN HERE THEN. WELL, WHAT DO YOU THINK IS A REASONABLE TIME? THREE MONTHS, SIX MONTHS I DON'T KNOW. I MEAN IT DEPENDS ON THE TIME OF YEAR TOO AND THE WEATHER AND WELL, AND THE AMOUNT OF WORK IT'S GOING TO TAKE TO COME INTO COMPLIANCE BECAUSE YOU MAY HAVE TO REBUILD THE WHOLE COOP. RIGHT? RIGHT. OKAY. YES. DON.

MR. CHAMBERLAIN, IS THERE IS THERE ANY ESTIMATE OF HOW MANY PEOPLE WOULD HAVE? BECAUSE CURRENTLY YOU'RE STILL SOLO? YEAH. IT'S SUPPOSED TO DO REVIEWS, PLANS AND DO SITE VISITS. SO HOW MANY PEOPLE DO WE HAVE WOULD YOU ESTIMATE THAT WE HAVE FOR THE CHICKENS? I WOULDN'T EVEN KNOW WHERE. YEAH. THIS IS THAT'S HARD. I MEAN, I MEAN, THAT'S THAT'S THAT'S WHY WE NEED PERMITS. WE KNOW BECAUSE I CAN TELL YOU. I'M SURE I CAN TELL YOU SEVERAL. I CAN TELL YOU SEVERAL HOUSES. MANY. MANY A COUPLE OF HUNDRED. MANY. YEAH, I PROBABLY DON'T KNOW ABOUT A LOT OF THEM. IT'S GOING TO THOSE NUMBERS ARE GOING TO GO UP OVER THE NEXT COUPLE OF YEARS. THOSE NUMBERS IT'S SAFE TO ASSUME SINCE WE'VE BEEN WORKING ON THIS FOR THREE YEARS. GOD BLESS YOU, THAT THAT YOU'RE ANTICIPATING HAVING TO DEAL WITH THE ADMINISTRATIVE PART OF THIS. SO THAT'S IT'S NOT A PROBLEM. AND I DON'T SAY I DON'T SAY THAT CALLOUSLY. I IT REALLY IS. YOU KNOW, IT'S TO YOUR BENEFIT SOMEHOW, SOME WAY YOU MAKE IT MAKE IT HAPPEN. BUT ONCE WE GET THIS GOING AND PEOPLE COME IN FOR THE PERMIT AND THEY NEED TO TALK TO HIM, AND WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A SYSTEM IN PLACE OVER THERE. YOU KNOW, WE'RE WE'RE NOT OUT TO HAMMER ANYBODY. THAT'S THAT'S NOT THE POINT. IT'S JUST TRYING TO GET A HANDLE ON IT. THAT'S THAT'S WHAT WE WANT TO DO. I THINK THE PERMIT WOULD HELP WITH IT. IT'S JUST WE WANT THE PERMIT. WE WANT PEOPLE TO HAVE A PERMIT, YOU KNOW, AND IF WE IF WE GET A CALL SOMEPLACE AND HE GETS OUT THERE AND HE CHECKS AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PERMIT, OKAY, NOW HE CAN TALK TO HIM. HEY, DID YOU KNOW YOU NEED A PERMIT FOR THIS? YOU NEED A PERMIT. SO LET ME TELL YOU WHAT YOU NEED TO DO, BLAH, BLAH. YOU KNOW, IT'LL TAKE A LITTLE TIME. IT'LL BE A PROCESS BEFORE WE REACH EVERYBODY. WE WON'T EVER REACH EVERYBODY. BUT WE CAN. WE CAN GET A GOOD GRASP ON THINGS, YOU KNOW. AND THE REASON WHY I ASKED THAT QUESTION. BECAUSE YOU DEFINITELY HAVE A HILL TO CLIMB. BUT IT GOES TO ALSO TO MR. BAKER. YOU HAVE PEOPLE THAT ARE ALREADY ESTABLISHED WITH THAT. HOW LONG IS IT GOING TO TAKE THEM TO GET A PERMIT? SO WE DON'T HOPEFULLY NOT TOO LONG. AND I'M I'M WORKING HARD TO GET

[01:45:07]

RIGHT? AND THEY DON'T HAVE A PERMIT, THEN HOPEFULLY THEY WILL GET ONE. AND THEN THEY'RE GOING TO GET THE SAME COMPLAINT. BUT NOW THEY HAVE A PERMIT. I'M JUST TRYING TO UNDERSTAND HOW ANYTHING'S DIFFERENT OTHER THAN NOW THEY HAVE A PERMIT, BUT YOU'LL STILL GET THE COMPLAINTS.

YOU'LL STILL GET THE CALLS. SO THE PERMIT IS FOR US. IT'S FOR DOCUMENTATION. SO WE KNOW WHERE YOU KNOW WHERE THE CHICKENS ARE, WHERE THE ROOSTERS ARE. YOU KNOW, THAT'S THAT'S WHAT THE PERMIT IS FOR. THE PERMIT ISN'T FOR THE PERSON. IT'S FOR US. YOU UNDERSTAND WHAT I'M SAYING? YEAH. FOR THAT DOCUMENTATION. NOW, ANY OTHER VIOLATIONS THAT MAY OCCUR OUTSIDE OF THE PERMIT, THEN WE JUST HAVE TO DEAL WITH IT, I MEAN, JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE FUNNY, BUT JUST BECAUSE YOU HAVE A DRIVER'S LICENSE DON'T MEAN YOU CAN SPEAK, RIGHT? THAT DRIVER'S LICENSE IS SO THE STATE CAN KNOW WHO IS DRIVING THAT CAR, WHO WHO IS ABLE TO DRIVE AND WHO'S NOT. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT NECESSARILY FOR THE INDIVIDUAL, YOU KNOW. WELL, IT WOULD ALSO HELP, I WOULD THINK, TO HIS POINT, YOU KNOW, IF WE DO GET THAT COMPLAINT AFTER THEY HAVE A PERMIT, THEN IF I GO OUT THERE, YOU KNOW, A LOT OF TIMES I WORK IN DAYS, I DON'T REACH A LOT OF PEOPLE AT HOME, YOU KNOW, AT WORK OR WHEREVER. SO IF WE HAD THAT PERMIT, WE'VE GOT THEIR INFORMATION. SO, YOU KNOW, IF WE GET A COMPLAINT AND I GO INVESTIGATE AND IT'S TRULY, YOU KNOW, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO HAVE SIX AND THEY'VE GOT 16 AND THEY'RE, YOU KNOW, IN VIOLATION.

THEN I CAN, YOU KNOW, ISSUE A CITATION OR WHATEVER. BUT I HAVE SOMEONE TO ADDRESS AS OPPOSED TO JUST, YOU KNOW, JUST LEAVING ANOTHER NOTICE. YEAH. ANOTHER SIDE OF THAT TOO, BECAUSE I'M TRYING TO THINK, WHY IS IT IMPORTANT THAT YOU HAVE A PERMIT? WHY IS IT IMPORTANT TO KNOW THE CHICKENS ARE. BUT TO THAT OTHER SIDE OF THAT POINT, IF THEY'RE IN COMPLIANCE, YOU GO BACK TO THE COMPLAINER AND SAY, LOOK, THEY'VE GOT A PERMIT. EVERYTHING'S LEGIT. THEY'RE FOLLOWING ALL THE RULES AND THAT THAT CALL ENDS. THAT'S THAT'S A GOOD. YEAH. WELL, I LIKE THE PERMIT THAT. IT SEEMS LIKE THAT'S A STEP IN THE RIGHT DIRECTION. THAT WAY WE'RE ABLE TO TRACK AND KNOW WHERE THE FOWL ARE CURRENTLY LOCATED. AND WE CAN THEN TARGET AND START SEEING, PAYING ATTENTION. IF WE'RE HAVING A LOT OF CALLS IN THAT AREA, THEN WE KNOW WHAT HOUSES OR RESIDENTIAL PROPERTIES IN THAT AREA MAY HAVE THE POSSIBLE CALL. SO THAT WAY YOU CAN FOCUS NOW AND IF ONE SHOULD CALL, SHOULD COME IN WHEN YOU'RE NOT AT WORK OR ON DUTY AND THE PERMIT IS ON FILE, THEN MAYBE Y'ALL MAY HAVE SOMETHING IN PLACE WHERE IF IT'S DOWNTIME AND I KNOW WE'RE STRETCHED, PROBABLY AN OFFICER CAN GO IN THAT AREA AND THEN LISTEN AROUND THAT ADDRESS OF WHAT'S ON FILE THAT COULD POSSIBLY HELP WITH A LOT OF THINGS IF WE HAVE THE PERMIT.

BEING ABLE TO IDENTIFY THE AREA OF THE CALL OR THE EITHER THE ADDRESS COULD POSSIBLY NARROW IT DOWN TO THE ADDRESS OF THE POSSIBLE VIOLATIONS. OKAY. SO WE'RE KIND OF AT THE END, AREN'T WE JUST. YEAH. SO WE WANTED TO LEAVE THE CHART WITH THOSE NUMBERS. WELL LET'S TALK ABOUT THAT. LET'S GO BACK TO THAT REAL QUICK I. SO WHICH ONE ARE WE GOING WITH. THIS ONE THAT YOU UPDATED OR IT DOESN'T IT. SO IT'S THE SAME NUMBERS. IT'S JUST SO IF YOU LOOK ON ON THIS IT SAYS SIX OR LESS. THIS SAYS UP TO SIX. IT'S JUST A DIFFERENT WAY OF. SO BACK TO. LOOKING AT ALL THE CHICKENS. ARE THESE NUMBERS REASONABLE TO YOU. I HAD I'M ON A HALF ACRE, BUT WE'RE PROPERLY LAID OUT. MY BACKYARD IS MORE LIKE IF I OWNED A QUARTER ACRE BECAUSE IT'S JUST A LONG SETUP. AND I MEAN, I HAD TEN, 12 CHICKENS, PROBABLY AVERAGED EIGHT, AND THEY WEREN'T

[01:50:09]

OKAY, OKAY. THEY WOULD BE A FACETIOUS. ALL RIGHT, MR. PENNYBAKER POINT COUNTERPOINT HERE. I'M LOOKING AT A FAIRMEADOWS LOT 60 BY 90. RIGHT. HOW'S IT GOT A 35 FOOT SETBACK.

AND SO THERE'S NOT MUCH OF A BACKYARD. AND THAT'S GOING TO BE THAT ONE RIGHT THERE. AND TEN CHICKENS. AND I LIVED IN ONE OF THOSE HOUSES. SO I KNOW HOW SMALL THE BACKYARDS WERE. SO TEN CHICKENS IN A BACKYARD THAT SIZE IS A LOT OF CHICKENS. THAT'S VERY LITTLE AREA BACK THERE.

IT'S NOT MINUSCULE, BUT IT'S NOT. SO WHAT ARE THE CONCERNS WITH HAVING TEN CHICKENS IN THAT AREA, I GUESS. IS THE IS THERE A IS IT NOISE? IS IT SMELL. IS IT. NO, IT'S JUST A POINT OF A POINT OF REASONABLENESS. AND I KNOW IT'S IN THE EYES OF THE BEHOLDER, BUT IF YOU GOT FOUR FOOT FENCES OUT OF FAIR MEADOWS, WHICH YOU DO PRIMARILY BETWEEN RDR, AND THEN YOU LOOK AT THE DIFFERENCE AND THE IMPACT, VISUAL AND EVERYTHING ELSE BETWEEN SIX CHICKENS AND TEN CHICKENS. I THINK IT COULD I THINK IT COULD DISRUPT SOME PEOPLE AND BOTHER THEM. IF YOU'RE IN A THREE BEDROOM HOUSE OVER THERE AND YOU KNOW, I'M NOT GOING TO SAY I KNOW HOW MANY PEOPLE ARE LIVING IN EACH ONE OF THOSE HOUSES. BUT IF YOU ASSUME YOU KNOW A MOM AND DAD AND TWO KIDS, WHICH IS PROBABLY A LITTLE BIT HIGHER THAN THAT, AND YOU'RE PRODUCING, WHAT, TEN, TEN EGGS A DAY, YOU NEED THAT TEN EGGS A DAY. SO I DON'T KNOW. IN FAIRNESS, I WANT TO SAY HIS NUMBER IS EIGHT. YEAH, EIGHT ON THE QUARTER ACRE UNDER WHICH THAT'S WHAT FAIR MEADOWS IS ALL QUARTER ACRE AND UNDER IT WOULD BE EIGHT. SO. SO IN OUR SMALLEST LOTS MOVE IT UP TO EIGHT AND YOU'D BE HAPPY WITH THAT. MR. KOCH, YOU GOT SOME OTHER SIMILARLY BACK SMALL BACKYARDS IN YOUR NEIGHBORHOOD. YEAH. YES. YEAH. OKAY. SO I'LL GO I'LL GO WITH EIGHT. SO I'M GOING TO SUGGEST EIGHT, 12. AND THEN JUST LET'S HEAR FROM JUST TO KEEP IT. LET'S HEAR FROM THE CHIEF.

THAT'S RIGHT. JUST KEEP IT. KEEP IT BALANCED. THAT'S UP TO ACRE 20. YOU KNOW, IT'S NOT THE NUMBER THAT I WANTED, BUT I MEAN WE CAN GO WITH THAT. I JUST WANT A NUMBER. I JUST I THINK I THINK YOU GOT IT. I THINK YOU GOT IT. AND I'M NOT TRYING TO BE FLIPPANT ABOUT THAT, BUT I'M TRYING TO MOVE ON, NOT TO SACRIFICE THE QUALITY OF THE OUTCOME OF THIS, THIS WORKSHOP.

I'M NOT IN ANY HURRY. I GOT A 7:00 ZOOM MEETING, SO I GOT PLENTY OF TIME. GO AHEAD. SO WE'RE GOING UP TO ON EACH ONE OF THOSE. IS THAT WHAT WE'RE SAYING? NO, NO, JUST JUST JUST JUST THE FIRST TWO OKAY. BECAUSE I THINK I THINK 20 AND BEYOND THAT I MEAN IF YOU HAVE MORE THAN 20, YOU'RE, YOU'RE, YOU'RE DOING SOMETHING MORE THAN JUST RAISING THEM FOOD. YOU'RE YOU'RE SELLING EGGS, WHICH I'M NOT AGAINST. BUT YEAH. AND I WANT TO KIND OF FOOD AND ALL SORTS OF STUFF. SO I DON'T THINK YOU NEED TO REALLY GO UP. AND I WOULD LIKE FOR US TO RECAP BEFORE WE.

OKAY. AND I WOULD TOO, BECAUSE I'M GOING TO SAY THIS COUNCIL, YOU ALMOST HAVE TO LOOK AT THIS

[01:55:02]

BUT BUT IF YOU'RE NOT LOOKING AT THE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT COULD BE IMPACTED BY THIS, YOU GOT TO I THINK YOU GOT TO GIVE THAT A LITTLE BIT OF THOUGHT, BECAUSE THE FEEDBACK IS GOING TO BE INTERESTING WHEN THEY FIND OUT, WELL, NOBODY IN MY NEIGHBORHOOD OR IN MY ON MY STREET HAS CHICKENS. NOW YOU'RE ALL SITTING HERE TELLING THEM THEY CAN HAVE TEN, AND YOU GO BACK TO THE UP TO SIX UNDER UNDER A QUARTER ACRE. THAT'S WHERE ECONOMICALLY THOSE FOLKS BENEFIT GREATLY BY HAVING EGGS. SO THERE'S IT'S COMPLICATED I THINK. YEAH. WELL AND TO THAT POINT THOUGH, THE WE BASICALLY LET THEM HAVE CHICKENS AS MANY AS THEY WANT RIGHT NOW ANYWHERE THEY WANT. BUT THAT'S WHY WE'RE HERE. RIGHT. RIGHT. SO I DON'T I DON'T, I DON'T KNOW THAT THE THAT'S WHAT'S GOING TO HAPPEN. I THINK THE PEOPLE THAT ARE GOING TO SEE THIS AND SAY, OH, NOW WE CAN HAVE CHICKENS.

THEY'RE GOING TO SAY, WELL, WE CAN ONLY HAVE THIS MANY INSTEAD OF THE 20, BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, IT'S HARD TO MAINTAIN A LOT OF CHICKENS AND MOST CHICKEN OWNERS ARE ALSO YOUR EXPERIENCES AREN'T TRUE IN ALL CASES. MOST OF THEM ARE REALLY RESPONSIBLE PEOPLE AS FAR AS THEIR CHICKENS AND TAKING CARE OF THEM. I THINK THE DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS THAT YOU MIGHT SEE MORE CHICKENS APPEAR IN THE OWNERS, AND I KNOW SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE IN DIFFERENT NEIGHBORHOODS, YOU KNOW, DIFFERENT INCOME LEVELS. AND THEY THEY DO THEIR CHICKEN COOPS DIFFERENT. THEY LOOK LIKE, YOU KNOW, THEIR HOUSE SOMETIMES. I UNDERSTAND YOUR CONCERN. I DON'T I'M JUST I'M JUST CAUTIONING EVERYBODY THAT THAT IN YOUR DISTRICTS, YOU MAY HAVE NEIGHBORHOODS THAT ARE NOT GOING TO BE RECEPTIVE TO BECAUSE THEY'RE NOT THERE RIGHT NOW. THERE MAY BE A FEW THAT WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT, BUT THEY'RE NOT THERE. WHEREAS OTHER NEIGHBORHOODS, WE KNOW THEY'RE IN FAIR MEADOWS, WE KNOW THEY'RE IN CANDLELIGHT. WE KNOW THEY'RE IN THOSE DISTRICTS, ALL THOSE LARGE, DEEP LOTS. YOU KNOW, IT'S JUST THEY'VE BEEN THERE FOREVER. I MEAN, I CAN TELL YOU, 25 YEARS AGO, I WENT TO A BACKYARD DOWN IN ONE OF THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS BACK THERE. THE GUY PROBABLY HAD 20 GOATS BACK THERE. THEY WERE REAL. THEY WERE NEAT. THEY WERE CLIMBING ALL OVER TIRES. THEY HAD A PLAYGROUND SET UP FOR THEM. BUT I DON'T KNOW WHAT HE IF THEY WERE PETS OR WHAT HE WAS DOING WITH THEM. WHICH BRINGS ME TO ANOTHER QUESTION WE HAVEN'T TALKED ABOUT AT ALL. AND MAYBE IT DOESN'T NEED TO BE TALKED ABOUT, BUT WHERE DO WE STAND ON THE SALE OF EGGS? I DON'T WANT TO PROHIBIT WE HAVE THAT UNDER NUMBER EIGHT. YEAH. SECTION 428. AND IT'S ALL THE WAY DOWN THE BOTTOM. TO AT J. AND IT JUST SAYS BACKYARD CHICKENS OR EGGS SHALL NOT BE SOLD FROM THE PROPERTY. OKAY. WE KNOW THAT'S GOING ON. PROBABLY PRETTY WIDESPREAD. AND WE NEED WE NEED TO MAKE A DECISION ON ON WHERE WE STAND ON THAT. I DON'T KNOW THE HEALTH ISSUES HAVING TO DO WITH ANYTHING. WITH EGGS COMING OUT OF KROGER'S. SO I KNOW THAT THESE EGGS CAN CAN LAST LONGER.

[02:00:06]

SO SINCE WE'RE THERE AND IT'S A GOOD POINT, I APPRECIATE IT. SINCE WE'RE THERE. WHAT WHAT ABOUT THE SELLING OF THE SELLING OF CHICKEN FOR MEAT OUT OF A RESIDENTIAL PROPERTY? BECAUSE I HEARD I HEARD SOMEWHERE ALONG THE LINE, I WASN'T EVEN THINKING ABOUT THAT UNTIL I HEARD IT, THAT SOME PEOPLE DO NOW THAT I HAVEN'T. YOU'RE JUST SELLING THE BIRD. BUT IT'S FOR ME. THEY CAN BUY A BIRD AND GO SLAUGHTER IT THEMSELVES. SO I DON'T THINK IT'S NOT. PROCESSING. IS IT? WOULDN'T BE ABLE TO DO THAT. THAT'S FINE. RIGHT. THAT'S FINE. AGAIN, I'M A CITY BOY SO I DON'T I DON'T KNOW IF I'M SO KILLING MY OWN CHICKENS. IF I CAN ASK ABOUT WHEN WE SAY TWO DIFFERENT THINGS HERE ON THE E EIGHT WHERE IT SAYS ALL BACKYARD BYPRODUCTS, INCLUDING BUT NOT LIMITED TO EGGS, MEAT OR MANURE MAY NOT BE SOLD AND THEN J BACKYARD HENS OR EGGS SHALL NOT BE SOLD FROM THE PROPERTY. SO WE'RE SAYING X TWICE. IS THAT RIGHT? WHAT WAS I'M SORRY. WHAT WAS THE FIRST ONE I GOT J. OKAY. FIRST, WHAT PAGE NUMBER ARE YOU ON? OH I'M SORRY 1515. E8E888 OKAY. EIGHT NINE. 228. AND THEN LATER UNDER J THE VERY BOTTOM, VERY BOTTOM BACKYARD HANDS ARE EGGS SHALL NOT BE SOLD FROM THE PROPERTY. OKAY. SO I DON'T SEE WHAT THE PROBLEM IS WITH THE HANDS, BUT YOU ALSO LEAVE IT OPEN TO I JUST HAVE TO LEAVE MY PROPERTY TO SELL IT THEN. RIGHT. I CAN'T CONTROL, I'LL JUST GO BACK IN THE ALLEY. YEAH, RIGHT. I MEAN, I'M OKAY WITH THAT AS FAR AS THE INTERPRETATION, BECAUSE. I'M SURE THAT THE EGGS ARE BEING SOLD AS WELL. DO YOU HAVE ANY COMMENT? BUT YOU'RE BASICALLY SAYING YOU CAN'T BE OPERATING COMMERCIALLY ACTIVE PROPERTY.

WELL, SHORT OF HAVING A SIGN UP SOMEWHERE, YOU DON'T KNOW IF THEY'RE SELLING THEM OR GIVING THEM AWAY, RIGHT? YEAH. AND LIKE THE PLACE THAT YOU HELPED WITH PEOPLE PUT DONATIONS IN? YEAH.

OKAY. NOT SELL THEM. HERE'S A DONATION. THANK YOU. WELL, I THINK I THINK PRIMARILY WE'VE ADDRESSED SOME OF THE KEY THINGS THAT YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT AND THAT, THAT THAT IS THE PERMITTING. AND WE BY CONSENSUS, WE'VE AGREED THAT WE DON'T WANT TO SEE FEES ASSOCIATED AT THIS TIME WITH THE PERMITS, BUT THE PERMITS ARE TO YOUR BENEFIT. SO YOU KNOW WHERE THESE ARE GOING ON AND, YOU KNOW, HAVE CONTACT INFORMATION. SO IF THERE WAS A PROBLEM YOU KNEW HOW TO CONTACT, YOU DON'T HAVE TO START FROM SCRATCH, NO PUN INTENDED. SO THAT PART THAT PART IS EIGHT 1228 1220 THE NUMBER. YEAH. AND WE AGREED. Y'ALL AGREED TO THAT. YEAH. OH YEAH. YES. OKAY. AND WE HAVEN'T SATISFIED I THINK THE MAJORITY IN THIS ROOM THAT THE FENCE REQUIREMENT IS JUSTIFIED.

SO NO NO FENCE REQUIREMENT. NO NESTING BOX. NO I'M PRETTY SURE THEY HAVE THEM BUT I DON'T I DON'T AGREE WITH THE THERE SHALL BE AT LEAST ONE NESTING BOX FOR EVERY FOUR HANDS KEPT. I. I

[02:05:12]

I'M AT 119 FOREST COURT. YES, SIR. SO THIS THIS IS FROM THE AGRICULTURAL EXTENSION. AND THEY SAY THAT THAT FOR LAYING HENS YOU SHOULD HAVE ONE NESTING BOX PER FOUR HENS. SO I MEAN THEY, THEY HAVE SOME PRETTY GOOD GUIDELINES HERE AS TO, TO WHAT SIZE COOP YOU SHOULD HAVE, HOW MUCH SPACE YOU SHOULD HAVE, HOW MUCH ROOSTING BAR YOU SHOULD HAVE AND HOW FAR APART THE ROOSTING BAR SHOULD BE AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF. AND IT'S A FREE RESOURCE FROM THE IS IT TEXAS A&M? YES. OKAY. WHERE DID WE GET OUR DESIGN CRITERIA FOR THE CHICKEN FROM CHIEF OKAY. THE CHIEF. SO HE WOULD HAVE DID THE RESEARCH WITH PROBABLY LOOKED AT THAT AND PROBABLY LOOKED AT SOME OF THE SURROUNDING CITIES BECAUSE THAT SOUNDS SIMILAR TO WHAT WE'VE DONE. THIS WAS REALLY HARD TO FIND. I HAD TO JUMP THROUGH A WHOLE BUNCH OF HOOPS TO GET TO IT. OH, WOULD YOU MIND, WOULD YOU HAVE SEVERAL COPIES WITH THE I HAVE, I HAVE ONE THAT'S UNSTAPLED, AND I'VE GOT FOUR STAPLED COPIES AND I DON'T NEED THEM. I'VE GOT TWO COPIES AT HOME AND WE'LL GET SOME COPIES. I KNOW WE WANT TO KEEP THE COST DOWN, BUT THE NESTING BOX, IF YOU'RE SEEING THAT, THAT WE'RE SAYING THAT THEY CAN HAVE A AUSTIN'S THEY'RE ASSUMING THEY'RE ALL GUIDANCE.

OKAY. AUSTIN, THE NESTING BOX, YOU CAN GET A NESTING BOX FOR AS CHEAP AS $14. THAT'S. WE'RE NOT TALKING. I LOOKED MYSELF. THAT'S INFORMATION WE NEED. YOU CAN GOOGLE GOOGLE NESTING BOXES AND YOU WILL SEE YOU CAN GET THEM AS LOW AS $14 $15. IT'S NOT IT'S NOT SOMETHING THAT'S GOING TO BREAK THE BANK. YOU CAN YOU CAN USE MILK CRATES. MAKE YOUR OWN. YEAH. JUST JUST THE OLD PLASTIC MILK CRATES. YOU JUST HAVE TO GET THEM UP OFF THE GROUND. SO IS THIS COMMON KNOWLEDGE FOR PEOPLE WHO HAVE CHICKENS? YEAH, SURE, SURE. BUT BUT AS PART OF THE PERMITTING PROCESS TO HAVE A STANDARD THAT WHETHER IT COMES FROM A&M, I'M A UT GUY MYSELF. BUT IF YOU COME FROM A&M, I THINK THAT'S A PRETTY DARN GOOD STANDARD. AND IT SEEMS TO MATCH UP ON THAT ONE ONE AREA. SO AS LONG AS WE'RE ONLY GIVING PEOPLE THE EXPECTATIONS OF WHAT THE INDUSTRY SUGGESTS AND PEOPLE A LOT SMARTER THAN ME ABOUT ABOUT KEEPING CHICKENS, I'M GOOD WITH IT. OKAY. YES, SIR. CAN WE ASK HIM ABOUT THE NUMBER PER ACRE OR WHATNOT? WELL, BECAUSE I DON'T DO IT, I HAVE NO IDEA. FIRST OFF, SIR, LET ME LET ME SAY THAT WE'VE AGREED TENTATIVELY, BUT BUT IT'S PRETTY MUCH AGREED ON.

WE'RE MOVING UP TO UP TO EIGHT. AND THE SECOND ONE, WE'RE MOVING IT UP TO 12. SO ON HALF ACRE, YOU COULD HAVE 12. WELL, I'VE GOT A LITTLE OVER AN ACRE AND I'VE GOT THREE CHICKENS. THAT'S IT. MY I WOULDN'T HAVE THEM EXCEPT I'VE GOT A DAUGHTER AND SHE WANTED TO AND, AND MY WIFE SAID DO IT. SO YOU KNOW THE BOSS. THE BOSS HAS THE FINAL WORD. BUT. SO YOU WOULD SAY THAT THOSE NUMBERS ARE FAIR. OH, YEAH, THAT I DON'T. ONE THING THAT I HAD, I DIDN'T SEE IN THERE, BUT WHEN I LOOKED THROUGH THE, THE, THE, THE INITIAL THING THAT THEY SUBMITTED, I DON'T KNOW IF THAT'S WHAT Y'ALL ARE LOOKING AT NOW, THE CITY ORDINANCES ON THE WEBSITE HAD CHANGED SOME AND ALREADY INCLUDED SOME OF THAT STUFF. AND SO SOME OF THE DIFFERENT LANGUAGE AND THE OTHER ANIMALS, NOT SO MUCH THE CHICKEN STUFF, BUT ONE THING THAT I LOOKED AND THOUGHT, YOU KNOW, MAYBE WOULD BE A GOOD GUIDELINE. THEY MAKE LITTLE LEG BANDS THAT THEY'RE JUST A LITTLE PLASTIC LEG BAND. IT'S LIKE A ZIP TIE THAT IT WON'T IT WON'T CLOSE HARD ON THEIR THEIR LEG BUT JUST IT'LL, IT'LL RIDE LOOSE AND FLOP A LITTLE BIT BUT IT WON'T SLIP OFF. AND YOU COULD PUT LIKE A THE FIRST LETTER OF THE STREET NAME OR FIRST AND SECOND LETTER

[02:10:01]

YEAH. OF COURSE, OF COURSE THINGS ARE SET FORTH BY THE STATE AND THE COUNCIL CAN CAN COME UP WITH ORDINANCES AS THEY NEED FOR THE CITY. I WOULD SAY, THOUGH, I LIKE WHAT YOU'RE SAYING, BUT YOU HAVE TO CONSIDER YOU'RE TELLING SOMEONE, IT'S LIKE MY DOGS. YOU CAN TELL ME MY DOG NEEDS A COLLAR OUT OF THE YARD. NEEDS A LEASH OUT THE YARD. BUT IN THE BACKYARD, MY DOG DOESN'T WEAR, YOU KNOW, AND THAT COLLAR THAT IT SAYS WHERE HE BELONGS ON THERE. AND HE HAS A CHIP SAYING WHERE HE BELONGS. AND IT HAS THE PHONE NUMBER TO CALL. NOW, IF YOU TELL ME TO KEEP THAT ON MY DOG ALL THE TIME IN MY BACKYARD OR IN MY HOUSE, I'D HAVE A PROBLEM. SO SOMEBODY WE MAY ALL WHAT I'M SAYING IS I ACTUALLY LIKE HIS IDEA, BUT ARE WE GOING TO GET SOME PUSHBACK ON THAT? CHIEF, I'M EXACTLY LIKE YOU. I AGREE WITH THAT. I LIKE THE CONCEPT, BUT I THINK THAT THE RESPONSIBLE OWNER. AND JUST LEAVE IT, LEAVE IT TO THE OWNERS, FORMER MILITARY HERE, THAT'S HOW YOU TAG YOUR TOOLS. YOU TAG EVERYTHING. EVERYTHING YOU HAVE IS ID'D. SO. ALL RIGHT.

WELL. THANK YOU. ASSISTANT CHIEF WOOLCOTT AND OFFICER CHAMBERLAIN. WE'VE COVERED A LOT TODAY, AND I WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'VE COVERED EVERYTHING THAT YOU WOULD HOPE AND EXPECT TO COVER TODAY, BECAUSE I'M NOT WANTING TO WALK AWAY FROM HERE UNTIL YOU FEEL WE'VE FINALLY GOTTEN TO A POINT WHERE YOU'VE BEEN TRYING TO GET US, THERE'S A COUPLE OF THINGS THAT WE DIDN'T COVER THAT WE TALKED TO YOU ALL ABOUT BEFORE, AND WE CAN GO THROUGH THIS REAL QUICK. SURE.

AGAIN, WE'RE NOT TRYING TO HAMMER ANYBODY. WE'RE TRYING TO MAKE DUNCAN FEEL BETTER. THAT'S ALL. THAT'S ALL WE'RE TRYING TO DO NOW. WE DON'T HAVE TO HAVE PEOPLE PAY FOR THE CLASSES. WE CAN FIGURE OUT SOMETHING, SOMETHING ELSE TO GET THEM. THE EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL. THEY AGREED TO THAT. ALSO, WE TALKED TO MR. HAMBY, YOU KNOW, ABOUT PUTTING SOME EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL OUT FOR PEOPLE ON THE WEBSITE. SO I KNOW THERE WAS A QUESTION ABOUT PEOPLE, YOU KNOW, GOING THROUGH THE WEBSITE TO GET PERMITS OR WHATEVER. WE DON'T REALLY WANT THEM GOING THROUGH THE WEBSITE TO GET THE PERMITS. WE WANT THEM TO COME COME TO US, YOU KNOW, SO WE CAN HAVE THAT CONTACT WITH THEM. BUT I JUST WANT Y'ALL TO KNOW THAT, YOU KNOW, WE'RE BEING FLEXIBLE, LIKE WE WANT TO WORK WITH THE PEOPLE TOO. SO JUST KNOW THAT EDUCATIONAL MATERIAL IS GOING TO GET PUT OUT THERE. EITHER WAY IT GOES OKAY. AND THAT'S GREAT. AND IN SPANISH AS WELL. IN SPANISH.

BUT I DON'T EVEN BUT LET'S GO BACK. LET'S GO BACK. ONE OF THE FIRST THINGS YOU SAID WE'RE NOT WE'RE NOT DOING WE'RE NOT DOING THE CLASSES, BUT WE'RE GOING TO DO INFORMATIONAL PIECES OUT THERE. BUT YOU WANT THEM TO COME IN. YOU'D PREFER THAT THEY COME IN. SO WE NEED TO MAKE THAT CLEAR. AND WE NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR. YOU ALL NEED TO MAKE IT CLEAR WHY WHEN THIS WHEN THIS IS TALKED ABOUT AND APPROVED SO THAT EVERYBODY UNDERSTANDS WHY. BECAUSE BY TODAY'S STANDARDS EVERYTHING IS ABOUT BEING ABLE TO DO IT ONLINE. AND I'M NOT I'M NOT SAYING THE REASONS YOU WANT TO DO THIS. ARE WRONG, BUT WE NEED TO BE PREPARED FOR PEOPLE TO SAY, WELL, YOU KNOW, I DON'T HAVE TIME TO COME DOWN THERE. WHY DO YOU WANT US TO COME DOWN THERE? SO WE WILL WORK WITH PEOPLE IF. LISTEN, I'M NOT ASKING ANYBODY TO MISS WORK. TO. WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH PEOPLE.

AND. AND AS WE GET BETTER WITH THIS, AS WE GET A SYSTEM IN PLACE WITH THIS, AND HE GETS ANOTHER ACL, YOU KNOW, MAYBE DOWN THE LINE WE CAN DO THAT PROCESS ONLINE. BUT RIGHT NOW WE NEED HIM TO PUT EYES TO THE FACE. EYES TO THE TO THE TO THE PLACE WHERE THE CHICKENS ARE GOING TO BE. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE SURE THAT WE'RE DOING EVERYTHING RIGHT, YOU KNOW, AND I THINK THAT WE'RE OFF TO A GOOD START. WE'VE COME TO AN AGREEMENT ON SOME NUMBERS AND EVERYTHING, AND WE'RE MOVING IN A GOOD DIRECTION. AGAIN. WE CAN ALWAYS COME BACK AND ADJUST WHATEVER WE NEED TO ADJUST. YEAH. I DON'T HAVE ANY PROBLEM WITH YOU WANTING TO DO A FACE TO FACE, GIVEN THE CIRCUMSTANCES OF NOT HAVING AN ADDITIONAL ANIMAL CONTROL OFFICER AVAILABLE RIGHT NOW TO HELP OUT. SO IF THAT HELPS YOU, I DON'T HAVE AN OBJECTION TO THAT. I THINK THE REST OF YOU. YEAH. THE ONLY THING I HAD QUESTIONS ABOUT IS IF WE'RE GOING TO LAND ON SOMETHING AS FAR AS THE GRACE PERIOD FOR THE EXISTING STRUCTURES, AND IT SOUNDS LIKE

[02:15:05]

IT'S NO DIFFERENT THAN THE RENTAL REGISTRATION. WE'RE AT THE END OF THREE YEARS OF DISCUSSION AND THEY WANT TO GET THOSE PERMITS. SO THE RELOCATION OR REBUILDING OF THE COOPS I THINK SIX MONTHS MIGHT BE REASONABLE. BUT AS FAR AS GETTING THEM IN HERE AND GETTING THEM GETTING THEM, I THINK WE'RE PROBABLY MORE IN THE SIX WEEK AREA AT THE TOP END. WHAT DO YOU ALL THINK? WOULD YOU LIKE THEM SOONER? NO, I AGREE WITH THE I'M FLEXIBLE. I'M FLEXIBLE. IF WE'RE GOING TO TELL PEOPLE THAT WE'RE GOING TO WORK WITH THEM AND HEY, IF SIX MONTHS IS WHAT IT IS, OKAY, I AGREE WITH YOU. I THINK SIX WEEKS IS ENOUGH TIME TO COME IN HERE AND GET YOUR PERMIT, ESPECIALLY IF IT'S FREE. BUT IF YOU IF I COULD ASK SO THEY GET SIX WEEKS, BUT YOUR FIRST CONTACT WITH THEM IS YOU GET A TEN DAY WARNING, GO IN AND GET YOUR FREE PERMIT. THAT WHAT YOU'RE REALLY LOOKING AT, RIGHT? I MEAN, MAYBE I MEAN SAY IT AGAIN. YOU AFTER SIX WEEKS PASSES AND THEY'RE NOT PERMITTED. AND YOU GO OUT THERE AND YOU GET A CALL AND YOU FOUND OUT THEY DON'T HAVE A PERMIT, ARE YOU GOING TO CITE THEM AND FIND THEM, OR ARE YOU GOING TO SAY YOU GOT TEN DAYS TO COMPLY AND GO GET YOUR FREE PERMIT? SO IF YOU'RE LOOKING AT DOING IT, IT NEEDS TO BE THE EDUCATION PIECE. SO NOW I'M GOING TO GO BACK TO LIKE THE RENTAL REGISTRATION PROGRAM OKAY. WE HAD AN ESTIMATE. WE KNEW HOW MANY HOUSES WERE OKAY. WE STILL NEVER REACHED THAT ESTIMATE WHEN THAT WAS PUT IN AND STUFF. AND IT IS ABOUT AN EDUCATION PIECE.

AND ALL OF A SUDDEN SOMETHING HAPPENS AND PEOPLE ARE LIKE, OH, I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. AND SO IT'S GOT TO BE MARKETED. AND SO YES, SOME PEOPLE THAT ARE INTERESTED IN THIS, LIKE MR. DAVIS IS INTERESTED IN THIS. RIGHT. WELL, HE'LL DO HIS SOONER AND GET IT OUT OF THE WAY. BUT I'M STILL CONCERNED BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO OVERBURDEN THE STAFF AS WELL, TOO, SINCE I KNOW IT'S HARD FOR.

I'M SORRY. I DIDN'T MEAN TO CUT YOU OFF. I'M SORRY. NO. I'M DONE. I KNOW IT'S HARD. TO UNDERSTAND. SO OFFICERS WORK A LOT ON DISCRETION, AND HE HAS TO WORK A LOT ON DISCRETION. AND A LOT OF THAT INVOLVES COMMON SENSE. OKAY, SO IF I COME, IF I, IF I DEAL WITH YOU AND YOU TELL ME YOU DIDN'T KNOW, IT'S NO SKIN OFF MY BACK. I'M NOT WANTING TO WRITE A TICKET SO BAD THAT I HAVE TO. IT'S NOT, YOU KNOW. OKAY, WELL, LET ME HELP YOU NOW, TWO WEEKS FROM NOW, I COME BACK AND SEE YOU, AND YOU TELL ME. OH, I DIDN'T KNOW ABOUT THAT, BUT I DIDN'T KNOW. I WAS JUST OVER HERE TWO WEEKS AGO. AND I TOLD YOU ABOUT THREE WEEKS AGO, AND I TOLD YOU THAT'S A DIFFERENT STORY. SO HE'LL HAVE SOME DISCRETION. HE'LL BE ABLE TO USE HIS COMMON SENSE, AS WILL ANYBODY, YOU KNOW, THAT HAS TO DEAL WITH IT. IF YOU HAVE FROM NOW TO, TO FEBRUARY TO ADVERTISE AND MARKET THAT THIS IS COMING. AND HE SAID BEGINNING MARCH 1ST, YOU HAVE SIX WEEKS BECAUSE WE'VE BEEN ADVERTISING SINCE LATE JANUARY. WE'VE GIVEN NOTICE. WE'VE GOT IT OUT THERE. THEN YOU MAKE AN OFFICIAL STATEMENT, YOU HAVE SIX WEEKS TO REGISTER WITH US TO GET THE PERMIT ON THE COOP BUILDING SIDE. I THINK YOU AGREED THAT THAT THAT CAN BE LEFT OPEN TO SIX MONTHS OR MORE.

WHAT WAS YOUR LAST NUMBER? SIX MONTHS, SIX MONTHS, SIX MONTHS. I MEAN, THIS THIS IS WHY I THINK SIX WEEKS IS ENOUGH. WE CAN DO SIX MONTHS. BUT THIS IS WHY I THINK SIX WEEKS IS ENOUGH.

[02:20:03]

BUT IF THAT'S WHAT YOU WANT, SIX MONTHS IS IT. NO, I IT WASN'T MAKING SENSE BECAUSE I KNOW MOST CASES WHEN IT IS SIGNED AND IT HAS BEEN APPROVED AND IS SIGNED, THEN IT GOES INTO EFFECT. THEN SUCH AS ANY CONTRACT OR WHAT HAVE YOU, IT'S IN EFFECT. IS THAT THE CASE WITH THIS AS WELL? BUT THEN YOU SAY THAT THERE'S GOING TO BE THE EDUCATIONAL TIME, THEY'RE GOING TO HAVE ADDITIONAL TIME, AND THEN THERE'S SIX WEEKS. SO THAT WAS A LITTLE CONFUSING TO ME BECAUSE IF WE'RE TALKING ABOUT SIX WEEKS, IT WOULD MEAN THAT THE MOMENT THAT IT'S SIGNED, THE SIX WEEK TIME CLOCK STARTS AT THAT POINT. OR ARE YOU SAYING THAT ONCE THEY'RE IDENTIFIED AND YOU START ENFORCING IT, THEN THE SIX WEEK TIME CLOCK STARTS THE MOMENT YOU KNOCK ON THE DOOR? 1518 NATALIE DEMONICA GOOD. SOMETHING'S GOING ON WITH YOUR DOG OR I MEAN YOUR CHICKEN. NOW YOU HAVE SIX WEEKS FROM THE MOMENT YOU'VE BEEN INFORMED, WE'RE GOING TO APPROVE EVERYTHING THAT WE THAT WE AGREED ON TODAY. AND ONE THING I WANT TO SAY IS, PLEASE GET US BACK YOUR COPY OF THE CHANGES THAT WE MADE TODAY. THE SOONER WE GET THEM BACK, THE MORE PREPARED WE'RE GOING TO BE TO COME OUR NEXT MEETING. OKAY. AND THAT'S REALLY IMPORTANT BECAUSE WE ARE NOT LIKELY TO GET IT BACK IF WE WAIT UNTIL THE PACKET OR THE NORMAL PACKET DAY, WE'RE GOING TO HAVE A VERY SHORT WINDOW AND SAY, WELL, THAT'S NOT WHAT WE AGREED ON. SO GET IT BACK TO US AS SOON AS YOU'VE MADE ALL THE AND YOU DOUBLE CHECKED SO THAT WE CAN GET RIGHT ON IT. NOW IT'S JUST ONE. ONE LAST THING I'LL SAY IS, AT THAT POINT, I THINK THERE'S A WAY WE COULD APPROVE IT TO WHERE WE CAN SAY WHEN WE APPROVE IT, THAT THE POLICE DEPARTMENT WILL BE MAKING AN ANNOUNCEMENT AS TO WHEN THE SIX WEEK PERIOD WILL. AND SO WE TAKE IT OFF OUR HANDS AND JUST LET THEM HANDLE IT. BUT THERE'S SOME WAY WE CAN BUILD IT INTO THE ORDINANCE TO THEY WILL. ONCE THEY'RE AT A CERTAIN POINT, THEY WILL ANNOUNCE THE DATE THAT THE REGISTRATION NEEDS TO BE COMPLETED BY MR. KOONTZ. THANK YOU. SO HOW WERE Y'ALL AWARE OF TRADITIONALLY WHAT Y'ALL HAVE DONE IN THE PAST? HOW DO YOU PLAN ON ADVERTISING AND PUBLICIZING, LETTING PEOPLE KNOW? SO WE HAVE A FACEBOOK WE'VE ALREADY LIKE I SAID, WE'VE ALREADY TALKED TO MR. HAMBY THROUGH THE CITY WEBSITE, BUT WE'RE JUST PLANNING ON GETTING IT OUT THERE. YOU KNOW, WE WANT TO MAKE THE PUBLIC AWARE AND THERE'S NOTHING TO SAY THAT, YOU KNOW, IF BEFORE EVERY COUNCIL MEETING WHEN Y'ALL WERE SITTING UP THERE AND EACH ONE OF YOU TAKE TURNS AND YOU TALK AND THERE'S NOTHING TO SAY, Y'ALL CAN'T SAY, HEY, YOU MIGHT WANT TO TAKE A LOOK AT THIS. WE HAVE SOME INFORMATION FOR YOU ON THE WEBSITE. JUST SO YOU'RE AWARE, IS THIS SOMETHING? OH GO AHEAD.

SORRY. YEAH. THIS IS A FOLLOW UP. JUST SO A LOT OF PEOPLE DO CURRENTLY OWN CHICKENS. AT LEAST

[02:25:04]

THANK YOU. THAT'S AN EXCELLENT IDEA. GOOD IDEA. OKAY. ALL RIGHT, SO WE'LL LEAVE IT OPEN AND WE'LL FIND A WAY TO DO IT APPROPRIATELY THAT WHEN WE GO OVER THIS AND THAT, WE ALL HAVE AGREED TO ALL THE CHANGES THAT HAVE BEEN CORRECT AND GO INTO THAT MEETING, AND WE MAKE THE ASSUMPTION RIGHT NOW THAT THIS IS GOING TO BE APPROVED AND WE'RE GOING TO GO FORWARD. THEN WE'LL MAKE THE ANNOUNCEMENT THAT THERE WILL BE A DATE THAT WILL BE ADVERTISED BY THE POLICE DEPARTMENT AND ANIMAL CONTROL TO LET PEOPLE KNOW HOW LONG THEY HAVE TO GET REGISTERED AND GET THEIR CHICKEN COOPS IN ORDER. YES. DOES THIS HELP? IF YOU DON'T KNOW WHAT, I'M GOING TO MY CAR AND CRY. I WILL EXPLAIN FOR THE RECORD THAT IT'S NOT. I'M OPPOSING YOU, AND I'M PRETTY SURE WE ARE PROFESSIONAL ENOUGH TO UNDERSTAND THAT IT'S ADVOCATING FOR THE CITIZENS WHO DO CURRENTLY HAVE HENS AND CHICKENS AND ROOSTERS. I DON'T I SAID IT FROM THE BEGINNING. I'M NOT IN FAVOR OF PENALIZING THOSE WHO HAVE BEEN IN IN COMPLIANCE AND THEN MAKING JUST A BLANKET STATEMENT OR A BLANKET RULE FOR EVERYBODY WHEN THEY HAVEN'T BEEN IN ANY VIOLATIONS. BUT WE NEED TO FIND A WAY TO ADDRESS THOSE WHO ARE IN VIOLATION, BUT CAN'T SAY WHAT TYPE OF VIOLATION, BECAUSE WE DON'T HAVE A BREAKDOWN OF THE DIFFERENT TYPES OF CALLS. SO THOSE ARE MY CONCERNS. OKAY. I WAS JUST GOING TO SAY A LITTLE BIT ON THAT. SO IT'S FUNNY YOU SAY THAT BECAUSE THE CITY OF PLANO, WHICH I KNOW THEY'RE BIGGER, BUT THEY'RE ANIMAL CONTROL AND CITY COUNCIL DID THE SAME THING WITH THE ORDINANCE WITH EDUCATIONAL COURSE AND ALL THAT. AND THEY SAID THAT EVERYONE THAT WHO WAS ALREADY COMPLYING, THEY INSTANTLY WENT ONLINE, TOOK THE COURSE, GOT THE PERMIT, DID WHATEVER THEY NEEDED TO DO, AND THEN WHOEVER DIDN'T WANT TO TAKE THE COURSE, THEY JUST GOT RID OF EVERY CHICKEN AND ROOSTER THEY HAD. SO NOW THEY TOOK CARE OF YOURSELF. YEAH, YEAH. SO LONG AS THEY DON'T MOVE THEM IN THEIR HOUSE. OKAY. SO ANYTHING ELSE FROM YOUR SIDE? NO, SIR. ALL RIGHT. WELL, THANK YOU SO MUCH. THANK YOU FOR YOUR PATIENCE.

THANK YOU. AND THANK YOU FOR ALL THE HARD WORK YOU PUT INTO IT, BECAUSE I KNOW IT'S BEEN GRUELING, BUT I THINK WE'VE MADE A LOT OF HEADWAY. THANK YOU. COUNCIL. THANK YOU. GOOD CONVERSATION. AND I WILL HAVE TO BE NOTIFIED THAT I WAS ABOUT TO GET TO ADJOURN THE

* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.