[00:00:06]
          7:00 PM. WE WILL BEGIN THE REGULARLY SCHEDULED PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION MEETING. THE FIRST ITEM ON THE AGENDA IS TO CALL TO ORDER. SO THAT'S WHAT WE'LL DO NOW. THE SECOND ITEM I. 
          PUBLIC COMMENT. DO WE HAVE ANYONE FROM THE AUDIENCE WHO WOULD LIKE TO SPEAK AT THIS TIM? 
          [3. Discuss legal procedures and duties with City Attorney.]
SEEING NONE, WE WILL PROCEED TO THE THIRD ITEM ON OUR AGENDA, WHICH IS THE TRAINING FROM OUR CITY ATTORNEY, ROBERT HAGER. THANKS, THANKS. NATHAN IS. HAS ANYONE I KNOW? PEOPLE HAVE PROBABLY WATCHED COUNCIL MEETINGS, ATTENDED COUNCIL MEETINGS, PARTICIPATED IN COUNCIL MEETINGS. BUT HAS ANYONE NEW TO THE BOARD OR IS EVERYBODY NEW? THE PRIOR SERVICE? I KNOW YOU'RE NEW. HOW ABOUT THAT? HAVE YOU SERVED BEFORE? YES. AND MISS O'BRIEN AND MISS WYNN. SO YOU HAVE SOME IDEA. SO WHEN. AND I'LL START. PREFACE THIS A LITTLE BIT BY BY WAY OF BACKGROUND, THIS IS A STATUTORY BOARD. AND WHAT I MEAN BY THAT IS, IS PROVIDED FOR IN STATE STATUTE UNDER STATE LAW. AND SO YOU SERVE A FUNCTION, WHICH IS WHAT I WILL REFER TO AS BEING QUASI LEGISLATIVE. YOU'RE PART OF THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS THAT THE CITY UNDERTAKES FOR LAND USE REGULATION. AND THAT IS THE ADOPTION OF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN, WHICH WE'LL TALK A LITTLE BIT ABOUT TONIGHT. ULTIMATELY, THE COUNCIL APPROVES THAT BY ORDINANCE. AND THEN YOU APPROVE THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMPONENT OF OUR COMMUNITY AND OUR ORDINANCES BY MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS TO THE COUNCIL REGARDING TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENTS TO THE LAND USE REGULATIONS OR THE ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH WE CALL END ZONE, WHICH NATHAN WAS WALKING YOU THROUGH WHEN I GOT HERE. AND THEN ULTIMATELY, YOU ALSO PARTICIPATE IN THE PLANNING PROCESS AND THE PLANNING PROCESS. THE PLAT IS REALLY AN ENGINEERING DOCUMENT, AND YOU DON'T SERVE IN A LEGISLATIVE CAPACITY. YOU SERVE IN AN ADMINISTRATIVE CAPACITY. SO WHEN YOU'RE ACTING AND TALKING ABOUT ZONING CHANGES AND TEXT CHANGE, AMENDMENTS AND CHANGES TO THE ZONING MAP AND CHANGING ZONING ON THE LAND USE REGULATIONS FOR A PARCEL OF LAND, YOU'RE PARTICIPATING IN THE LEGISLATIVE PROCESS AND YOU'RE MAKING THAT RECOMMENDATION. YOU HAVE LOTS OF DISCRETION WHEN YOU ACT IN A LEGISLATIVE CAPACITY, YOU HAVE LESS DISCRETION WHEN YOU ACT IN AN ADMINISTRATIVE OR EXECUTIVE CAPACITY. WHEN WE TALK ABOUT PLATS. SO THAT'S SOMETHING IS KIND OF AN OVERVIEW OF WHAT YOUR ROLE IS. YOU PLAY A ROLE IN MAKING RECOMMENDATIONS AND THE COUNCIL DOES NOT HAVE JURISDICTION TO A ZONING CASE UNTIL THIS BOARD HAS ACTED AND MADE A RECOMMENDATION, WHICH IS THEN REFLECTED IN WRITTEN STAFF REPORT TO THE COUNCIL WHEN YOU'RE IF YOU'VE ATTENDED A COUNCIL MEETING, YOU'VE HEARD THE PLANNER. IN THIS CASE, MR. WARREN COMES BEFORE THE COUNCIL AND HE REITERATES WHAT THE CASE IS ABOUT. HE INDICATES WHO MAY HAVE APPEARED IN OPPOSITION, WHO APPEARED IN FAVOR. THEY MAY MAKE A STAFF RECOMMENDATION. AND HE ALWAYS REPORTS THAT THE COMMISSION APPROVES OR NOT APPROVES THE APPLICATION AND GIVES THAT VOTE. AND IT IS ALSO REFLECTED IN HIS STAFF REPORT, WHICH IS THE WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION OF THIS BODY AND THE COUNCIL. AND UNTIL THIS BODY ACTS, THE COUNCIL TECHNICALLY DOES NOT HAVE JURISDICTION OVER A ZONING CHANGE THAT'S REFLECTED IN THE ZONING ORDINANCE UNDER PROCESS. UNDER THAT CHAPTER OF PROCESS. AND IT'S ALSO CODIFIED IN STATE LAW, SPECIFICALLY IN CHAPTER 211, IT SAYS THAT THE COUNCIL DOESN'T HAVE JURISDICTION UNTIL THIS BODY MAKES A WRITTEN RECOMMENDATION. 
          SO WITH THAT, WE'LL KIND OF GET STARTED AND TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS. THERE ARE 45 SLIDES. I GUESS WE CAN PRINT THIS OFF FOR THEM SO THAT THEY CAN HAVE IT FOR FUTURE REFERENCE. THAT'S KIND OF QUICK. I DON'T LIKE TO TALK FOR OVER AN HOUR BECAUSE THE MIND CAN ONLY ABSORB WHAT THE SEAT CAN ENDURE, SO IT'S SOMEWHAT LIKE DRINKING THROUGH A FIRE HOSE. IT'S A LOT OF INFORMATION TO GIVE TO YOU AND SO IN STOP ME, I DON'T IT DOESN'T HAVE TO BE A MONOLOGUE. 
          SO STOP ME AT A POINT WHEN YOU HAVE QUESTIONS, BECAUSE THAT MEANS SOMETHING'S ON YOUR MIND. 
          YOU MIGHT FORGET ABOUT IT. IF WE DON'T GO OVER IT AND I'M SURE IF ONE OF YOU HAVE A QUESTION, 
          [00:05:05]
MAYBE THE OTHERS OF YOU HAVE THE SAME QUESTION. SO THIS IS OUR AGENDA. NATHAN SHOWED THAT TO YOU EARLIER, AND I'M GOING TO TRY TO GO THROUGH THIS SO THAT IT MAKES AND I'VE ORGANIZED THI. 
          SO IT KIND OF MAKES SOME SENSE. SO THE FIRST THING THAT THE CITY DOES IS THEY DECIDE WHAT THE ZONING, WHAT THE LAND USE REGULATIONS ARE GOING TO BE FOR THE COMMUNITY. AND THE FIRST THING THAT WE HAVE TO DO IS WE HAVE TO ADOPT A COMPREHENSIVE PLAN. AND WHAT THAT COMPREHENSIVE PLAN IS ATTEMPTS TO DO IS TO DIVIDE UP OUR COMMUNITY IN AREAS WHERE WE WANT PARTICULAR ACTIVITIES TO BE LOCATED WITHIN OUR COMMUNITY. SO WE DON'T BUILD A FACTORY NEXT TO A HIGH SCHOOL, OR WE DON'T HAVE AN INDUSTRIAL AREA NEXT TO SINGLE FAMILY HOMES. IF YOU GO BACK IN THE EASTERN UNITED STATES, THOSE CITIES WERE GREW AND BECAME POPULATED WHEN THEY DIDN'T HAVE ZONING REGULATIONS. SO IT'S NOT UNCOMMON. IF YOU GO TO A CITY LIKE BALTIMORE, YOU GO TO A CITY LIKE CLEVELAND, DETROIT, SOME OF THE EASTERN CITIES THAT REALLY HAD A LOT OF DEVELOPMENT PRIOR TO THE ADVENT OF LAND USE REGULATIONS TO SEE A VERY HIGH MIX OF USES THAT WE DON'T HAVE HERE FOR A LONG TIME, LAWYERS THOUGHT THAT LAND USE REGULATIONS WERE UNCONSTITUTIONAL BECAUSE WE WERE PEOPLE TELLING TELLING PEOPLE WHAT TO DO WITH THEIR PROPERTY. 
          AND FINALLY, THE SUPREME COURT IN A CASE CALLED CITY OF EUCLID, SAID THAT OUR REASONABLE REGULATIONS REGARDING LAND USE WERE IN COMMUNITY'S BEST INTEREST WAS A LEGITIMATE USE OF THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE GENERAL POLICE POWER. AND THAT THEY WERE LAWFUL. AND SINCE THAT TIME, MOST MUNICIPALITIES IN THE UNITED STATES HAVE ADOPTED ZONING. ONE CITY THAT'S HERE IN TEXAS THAT NEVER HAD A ZONING ORDINANCE UNTIL ABOUT 15 YEARS AGO IS HOUSTON. AND YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF HOUSTON WILL HAVE VERY NICE NEIGHBORHOOD NEXT TO MAYBE A MORE OF AN INDUSTRIAL OR HEAVY COMMERCIAL AREA, WHICH WE DON'T HAVE HERE, REALLY, IN IN DALLAS. DALLAS HAS ALWAYS SINCE THE EARLY 1920S, HAD A ZONING ORDINANCE. SO WE'VE HAD A LOT TO WORK OFF OF. THE CITY OF DUNCANVILLE WAS DEVELOPED WITH THE ZONING ORDINANCE SO THAT WE CAN SEPARATE THOSE. SO THE FIRST THING WE DO IS THAT COMP PLAN AND THAT COMP PLAN GIVES WHAT I CALL BLOTCHES. IT SAYS WE'LL HAVE SINGLE FAMILY HOUSING HERE, WE'LL HAVE MULTIFAMILY HERE, WE'LL HAVE OUR COMMERCIAL CORE HERE. WE'LL HAVE NEIGHBORHOODS OVER HERE AND TRY TO IN GENERAL MAP OUT WHAT THE CITY, HOW IT SHOULD DEVELOP AND WHERE THE COMMERCIAL AREAS ARE, WHERE THE RETAIL AREAS ARE, WHERE THE OFFICE AREAS OUGHT TO BE, AND WHERE THE RESIDENTIAL AREAS OUGHT TO BE. AND FROM THAT, THE COUNCIL IS SUPPOSED TO THEN BUILD A ZONING ORDINANCE OFF OF THAT. YOU ASKED A QUESTION ABOUT SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES. THE SF DISTRICTS, THE TOWNHOME DISTRICTS, WHICH IS MORE OF A MULTIFAMILY, MAYBE A TRANSITION FROM SINGLE FAMILY TO MULTIFAMILY AND TO THE TRADITIONAL MULTIFAMILY OR APARTMENT HOUSING WHERE OUR RESIDENTIAL AREAS ARE GOING TO BE. THE CITY ADOPTED ACTUALLY 19, 20 OR 2020, I'M SORRY, A NEW ZONING ORDINANCE, WHICH WE DID THROUGH THE PANDEMIC, WHICH WAS DIFFICULT, BUT WE DID GET IT DONE WITH LOTS OF TEAMS MEETINGS AND LOTS OF PARTICIPANTS FROM THE CITY AS WELL FROM OUR CITIZENS. SO THE FIRST THING WE DO IS WE ADOPT THAT COMP PLAN, THEN WE COME BACK AND DO OUR ZONING ORDINANCE. I THINK THERE'S SOME MAJOR COMP PLAN RE WE'RE SUPPOSED TO LOOK AT THAT EVERY TEN YEARS SINCE OUR CITY IS BUILT OUT, THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS WE CAN DO TO REDEVELOP OUR TOWN AS IT IS AGED. AND SO THAT'S WHAT THE FOCUS OF THIS COMP PLAN IS GOING TO BE. AND ONCE WE GET THAT NEW COMP PLAN, WE WILL PROBABLY LOOK TO ZONE. MAYBE OR REZONE CHUNKS OF OUR TOWN, ONE OF WHICH IS THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT. AND HOW THAT ALL IS GOING TO PLAY OUT. SO THOSE WILL BE VERY IMPORTANT THINGS AS WE GO THROUGH. SO WE HAVE THIS CONCEPT THAT REGULATIONS IS THAT'S WHERE THESE USES NEED TO BE. AND THEN THE DETAILS ARE THE ACTUAL ZONING ORDINANCE. THAT'S WHERE WE DECIDE WHAT THE SETBACKS ARE AND THE HEIGHT IS AND THE MASS OF THE BUILDINGS AND THOSE 
          [00:10:02]
THINGS THAT STATE LAW AND THAT EUCLID DECISION ALLOW US TO DO. SO. AGAIN, THE COMP PLAN IS AN OVERVIEW OF OUR CITY. THE STATUTE TELLS US THAT WE ARE TO LESSEN CONGESTION ON THE STREETS TO PROMOTE SAFETY FROM FIRE AND PANIC, AND OTHER DANGERS. WE DON'T WANT HIGH, INTENSE USES NEXT TO SINGLE FAMILY RESIDENCES. WE PROMOTE THE GENERAL HEALTH AND WELFARE OF OUR COMMUNITY. WE PREVENT OVERCROWDING OF LAND AND AVOID UNDUE CONCENTRATIONS OF POPULATION. AND THEN WE HAVE TO MAKE PROVISION FOR THINGS LIKE TRANSPORTATION, OUR INFRASTRUCTURE FOR OUR SCHOOLS, OUR PARKS AND OTHER REQUIREMENTS THAT THE COMMUNITY WANTS TO SEE. 
          SO YOU ASK ABOUT THE ZONING DISTRICTS, MISS O'BRIEN, THESE ARE ZONING DISTRICTS UNDER FOR OUR RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS. THESE AND ACRONYMS ARE, I GUESS, THE BEST WAY TO SF IS ALWAYS SINGLE FAMILY IN THIS LINE OF WORK. IF THEY'RE SINGLE FAMILY. 43, 13 AND TEN USUALLY REFERS TO THOUSANDS IN TERMS OF LOT SIZE. SO IF YOU SAY SF SEVEN, IF YOU EVEN GO TO ANOTHER COMMUNITY, THAT'S PROBABLY SINGLE FAMILY, 7000 SQUARE FOOT LOT IS WHAT THAT STANDS FOR. THE TF IS OUR DUPLEX HERE. OUR MFS ARE MULTIFAMILY, AND THEN THE 14 AND THE 21 REFER TO THE DENSITY. WE HAVE NON RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS WHICH MEANS ARE PLACES AND THINGS OR USES. IF YOU WILL, WHERE PEOPLE DON'T RESIDE BUT ARE PRIMARILY FOR COMMERCIAL AND RETAIL. WE HAVE NEIGHBORHOOD OFFICE. WE HAVE LOCAL OFFICE, GENERAL OFFICE, THE R STANDS FOR RETAIL, C'S FOR COMMERCIAL AND THEN IES INDUSTRIAL, WHICH IS MORE. SOME CITIES HAVE WHAT THEY CALL H-F IS KIND OF A HEAVY MANUFACTURING OR H-M HEAVY MANUFACTURING DISTRICT THAT HAVE THINGS LIKE AUTOMOBILE PLANTS AND THOSE KINDS OF THINGS HEAVY LIKE GENERAL MOTORS OVER IN ARLINGTON. SO AND THEY'RE BIG GENERAL MOTORS FACILITY. WE HAVE SOME SPECIAL DISTRICTS HERE. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT THE DOWNTOWN DISTRICT THAT'S BEEN SHOWN TO YOU BY MR. WARREN TONIGHT. AND THEN WE HAVE THIS THING CALLED PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS. AND PLANNED DEVELOPMENT IS A TOOL THAT PLANNERS HAVE USED TO INCORPORATE USES THAT HAVE MULTIPLE COMPONENTS OF EITHER MULTIPLE COMPONENTS OF NONRESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS OF RESIDENTIAL DISTRICTS OR RESIDENTIAL AND NONRESIDENTIAL USES. SO YOU'LL HEAR OR MAYBE SEE SOME PLANNING MATERIALS THAT TALK ABOUT THINGS SUCH AS LIVE WORK, WHERE THE STORES DOWNSTAIRS, THE OWNER OF THE STORE ACTUALLY LIVES UPSTAIRS. 
          YOU SEE THAT A LOT IN EASTERN UNITED STATES AGAIN, BECAUSE THE MIX OF USES PRIOR TO ZONING. BUT IT'S BECOME A VERY POPULAR TOOL IF YOU'RE FAMILIAR WITH, I WON'T SAY WHEATLAND PLAZA, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO STRIKE THAT MATCH TODAY. BUT IF YOU GO TO BISHOP, ARTS DISTRICT HAS A LOT OF RESIDENTIAL AND RETAIL CO-MINGLED IN THAT COMMUNITY, AND IT'S BECOME A VERY POPULAR THING. IT'S USUALLY YOU SEE IT IN HIGHER DENSITY COMMUNITIES OTHER THAN SUBURBAN COMMUNITIES, BUT IT HAS BECOME POPULAR IN SOME OF THE FIRST TIER SUBURBS OF DALLAS BECAUSE WE HAVE MORE DENSITY NOW THAN WE DID 30 OR 40 YEARS AGO. AND OUR LAND MASS HASN'T CHANGED. BUT OUR POPULATION IS ALMOST THREE TIMES WHAT IT WAS. THE FIRST TIME I EVER CAME OUT HERE. SO THAT MEANS YOU'VE GOT MORE PEOPLE LIVING IN A TIGHTER SPACE. MAYBE THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS OR THAT ZONING PRODUCT WOULD BE SOMETHING THAT WE COULD ACCOMMODATE THROUGH A PLAN DEVELOPMENT OR A SPECIALTY ZONING DISTRICT THAT MAY BE ADOPTED BY YOU AND THE COUNCIL LATER. SO IS THERE DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS ABOUT WHAT WE'RE TALKING ABOUT LAND USE. SO WE'RE NOT TALKING ABOUT HOW BIG THE BUILDING IS AT THIS POINT. THAT'S THE FIRST COMPONENT. WHAT IS THE LAND BEING USED FOR? THOSE ARE THE DISTRICTS AND OUTLINED IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE. THEY'RE NOT OUTLINED IN STATE LAW. THEY'RE IN OUR ZONING ORDINANCE OF HOW BIG THOSE LOTS ARE AND WHAT KIND OF USE YOU'RE GOING TO ALLOW ON THOSE LOTS. YEAH. SO WHAT YOU'RE 
          [00:15:07]
SAYING THAT IT'S IMPORTANT THAT. THAT'S THE MINIMUM LOT SIZE. YEAH. IT COULD BE LARGER, BUT IT CAN NEVER BE SMALLER SOMETIMES BECAUSE OF TOPOGRAPHY AND ALL THAT THING, THERE'LL BE A PIECE OF PROPERTY THAT'S KIND OF IT'S ON A SLOPE AND IT MAY NOT BE CONDUCIVE. SO THAT LOT MAY BE ACTUALLY BIGGER THAN 2500FT■!S, BECAUSE THAT'S THE ONLY DEVELOPABLE PART OF A LARGER LOT. BECAUSE OF THE SLOPE WOULD BE AN EXAMPLE. ALL RIGHT. SO THE NEXT THING IS THIS PROCESS IS HEAVILY REGULATED OKAY. SO WHEN I WANT TO ZONE MY LAND, IF I'M A LANDOWNER IN TOWN, I HAVE TO FILL OUT AN APPLICATION. AND THERE'S TWO THINGS THAT GET ADDRESSED IS THE ZONING MAP, WHICH NATHAN SHOWED YOU EARLIER. AND IF YOU EVER SEE THE ORDINANCE AT THE END OF YOUR WORK, IT SAYS THAT WE'RE AMENDING THE ZONING ORDINANCE AND THE MAP. THE MAP IS REALLY THE ZONING ON A PARTICULAR PIECE OF PROPERTY. IT HAS TO BE ON THAT MAP. THAT'S WHY THE ORDINANCE SAYS, AND TO AMEND THE MAP THEREOF. SO IF YOU'RE CHANGING MY LOT FROM AN SF SEVEN LOT TO AN SF TEN LOT, OR ALLOWING ME TO DOWN ZONE IT TO A SMALLER LOT AFTER THAT ORDINANCE IS PASSED, THE CLERK IN IN THE PLANNER HAVE TO CHANGE PHYSICALLY CHANGE THE MAP. IF I EVER HAVE TO GO TO COURT AND PROVE UP WHAT THE ZONING IS ON PROPERTY, I HAVE TO HAVE A COPY OF THE MAP. SO THE MAP IS THE THING THAT REALLY CHANGES THE ZONING. THAT'S WHY THE PDS ARE ON THERE. THE SUPS, ALL THAT HAVE HAS TO BE ON THE MAP. SO AND THEN YOU MAY BE OCCASIONALLY ASKED TO DO TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENTS. WE MAY CHANGE THE DEFINITIONS. WE MAY CHANGE THE DESIGNATION AND GIVE THINGS DIFFERENT NAME. WE MAY CHANGE THE REGULATIONS WITHIN THE ZONING AS TO SETBACK AND SIDE YARDS AND HEIGHT AND MASS AND ARCHITECTURAL FEATURES AND ALL OF THOSE EXTRA THINGS THAT WE DO. AND THOSE ARE CALLED TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENTS. THOSE TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENTS HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY YOU WITH A RECOMMENDATION. JUST LIKE ZONING DOES ON A PIECE OF PROPERTY. SO THOSE ARE THE TWO KIND OF CASES THAT YOU WILL ROUTINELY GET TO SEE AFTER THE STAFF GETS THE APPLICATION. THE STAFF GENERALLY BRINGS THOSE RECOMMENDATIONS. 
          THE COUNCIL MAY GET AT A MEETING AND SAY, YOU KNOW, THE ZONING ORDINANCE IS TOO RESTRICTIVE OR NOT RESTRICTIVE ENOUGH, AND THEY'LL INSTRUCT NATHAN TO BRING BACK A TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENT. 
          AND WHEN HE DOES, HE FILES THAT ZONING APPLICATION FOR THAT TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENT. MOST REZONING CASES THAT YOU SEE ARE INITIATED BY THE PROPERTY OWNER. THEY MAY WISH TO DO SOMETHING DIFFERENT WITH THEIR LAND THAN IT WAS ORIGINALLY PLANNED. AND SO THEY'LL COME TO YOU SEEKING A ZONING CHANGE. THE STAFF FIRST DETERMINES WHETHER OR NOT THAT ZONING APPLICATION IS COMPLETE. 
          HAS THE APPLICANT FILED ALL THE THINGS A COPY OF A SURVEY SHOW, OR INDICATION OF OWNERSHIP OF THE PROPERTY? EVERYTHING THAT'S IN THE APPLICATION? THERE MAY BE A SITE PLAN. THERE MAY BE ELEVATION RENDERINGS, THINGS THAT WE ASK THEM TO PROVIDE SO THAT YOU CAN SEE AND TOUCH IT AND SEE WHAT THEY WANT TO DO, WHY THEY WANT TO DO IT, AND ALL THOSE THINGS NEED TO BE IN THAT APPLICATION. SO WHEN YOU GET THESE CASES, YOU CAN MAKE AN INFORMED DECISION AND ACTUALLY SEE WHAT YOU'VE GOT THERE. IF THE APPLICATION IS COMPLETE, THEN WE GO TO THE PROCESS OF SCHEDULING THE PUBLIC HEARING AND SENDING OUT THE NOTICES THAT'S DONE BY THE STAFF. WE HAVE TO GIVE NOTICE TEN AND 15 DAY NOTICES BEFORE THE P AND Z MEETING AND BEFORE THE COUNCIL. 
          WE DOUBLE NOTICE HERE SO THAT WE SEND OUT ONE NOTICE WITH BOTH HEARINGS IN THERE. THE HEARING BEFORE YOU AND THE HEARING BEFORE THE COUNCIL, THAT'S WHY IT'S IMPORTANT FOR YOU TO COME IF YOU'RE NOT HERE, THEN WE HAVE TO START ALL OVER AGAIN BECAUSE THE APPLICANT AND THE CITIZENS THAT LIVE WITHIN 200FT ARE ENTITLED TO ACTUALLY RECEIVE A NOTICE OF WHAT THE ZONING CHANGE IS SO THAT IF IT DOES AFFECT THEM, THEY MAY APPEAR HERE AND VOICE THEIR SUPPORT OR OPPOSITION. SO ONCE THAT'S ALL COMPLETE, THEN THOSE NOTICES, THE HEARINGS HELD BEFORE YOU AND OF COURSE THE PUBLIC'S ENTITLED TO APPEAR. NATHAN HAS KIND OF GONE THROUGH THE USE CHART FOR 
          [00:20:10]
YOU, SO I WON'T BORE YOU WITH DOING THAT AGAIN. YOU KNOW THAT THE BLACK DOTS ARE. THAT MEANS IT'S USED THAT USE. THAT'S DELINEATED IN THERE UNDER THAT ZONING DISTRICT IS APPROVED AS OF RIGHT CIRCLES MEAN SUPS. SO. DO YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS SO FAR PROCESS. THAT PROCESS IS GENERALLY HANDLED HOPEFULLY WHEN YOU GET THE CASE BEFORE YOU. WE HAVE DONE ALL THE WHAT I'LL CALL MUNDANE ROUTINE ADMINISTRATIVE STEPS THAT ARE REQUIRED UNDER OUR ZONING ORDINANCE AND REQUIRED BY STATE LAW. AND THOSE THINGS HAVE BEEN TAKEN CARE OF. SOMETIMES THERE ARE PROBLEMS WITH NOTICES, BUT THAT'S JUST A FUNCTION OF EITHER THE RECORDS THAT THE CITY WERE NOT ACCURATE OR THE APPLICANT GAVE US INFORMATION OR MISINFORMATION IN WHICH SOMETIMES CAUSES US TO RE NOTICE PROPERTIES. OKAY. IF SOMETHING'S NOT LISTED ON THE CHART, THIS IS AN OPPORTUNITY. 
          ONE OF THE THINGS I LIKE TO DO IS IF I HAVE A USE THAT'S NOT LISTED ON THE CHART, WE GENERALLY, AS A FALLBACK, SAY IT'S ALWAYS REQUIRED FOR AN SUPP. WE ALSO MAY BE BRINGING YOU A WHAT I'LL CALL A TEXT CHANGE AMENDMENT SO THAT THAT NEW USE IS PLACED IN AN APPROPRIATE LIKE CATEGORY. ALL PROFESSIONS HAVE NEW WORDS THAT THEY LIKE TO USE, AND NEW USES THEY LIKE TO COME UP WITH AND TODAY WE CAN PASS A ZONING ORDINANCE A YEAR FROM NOW, THERE MAY BE A WHOLE LIST OF DIFFERENT KINDS OF USES OR PRODUCTS OUT THERE THAT WE DID NOT ANTICIPATE. SO THOSE CHANGES ARE NOT BECAUSE OF THE LACK OF FORESIGHT, BUT IT'S BECAUSE THINGS CHANGE AS THEY ALWAYS DO. SO IF IT'S NOT ON THAT USE CHART, THE APPLICANT IS WANTING TO BRING THAT PRODUCT. THEY WANT THE ZONING, THEY WANT TO DEVELOP A PART OF TOWN THAT THEY THINK NEEDS TO BE REDEVELOPED IN A CERTAIN WAY. WE'LL PUT IT ON THERE FOR AN SUPP. WE DON'T LIKE TO HOLD OUR CITIZENS UP. WE WANT OUR CITIZENS TO MAKE THE PROPER USE OF THEIR PROPERTY WITHOUT UNDUE RESTRICTION. BUT WE WILL NOTIFY EVERYONE WITHIN 200FT, JUST LIKE THEY ALWAYS WOULD WITH ANY SUPP, WHICH STANDS FOR SPECIFIC USE PERMIT. IF YOU'RE OUT THERE AND GO TO SEMINAR AT COG, YOU MAY HEAR CUP, WHICH IS A CONDITIONAL USE PERMIT. THEY'RE THE SAME THINGS WE JUST CALL THEM SUPS. HERE. AND I'LL GET INTO THAT A LITTLE BIT. BUT WE GO THROUGH THE SAME PROCESS. 
          NOTICE GOES OUT, NEWSPAPER NOTICE GOES OUT, THE LANDOWNERS WITHIN 200FT. THEY GET A SPECIFIC NOTICE. WE HAVE THE HEARINGS BEFORE HERE BEFORE YOU STAFF MAKES A PRESENTATION, THE APPLICANT AND THE CITIZENS GET TO COMMENT. I WILL TELL YOU THAT WE USE THE WORD PERMIT, BUT THIS IS REALLY AN AMENDMENT TO THE ZONING ORDINANCE SPECIFIC USE PERMITS ARE REALLY USES WHICH THEY MAY FIT. THEY MAY NOT FIT. AND THAT'S WHY YOU NEED TO SEE THOSE CASES INSTEAD OF US MAKING A I'LL PICK ON DRIVE THRUS BECAUSE THOSE YOU'LL SEE A LOT OF THOSE THAT'S VERY POPULAR FOR A RESTAURANT OR A FOOD SERVICE PLACE TO HAVE A DRIVE THROUGH. NOW THEY HAVE A MENU BOARD, THEY HAVE A QUEUING STATION. THEY HAVE A WINDOW, AND PEOPLE DRIVE THROUGH AND GET THEIR FOOD OR THEIR DRINKS. AND SO THE REASON THESE ARE NOT A USE AS OF RIGHT IS BECAUSE SOME, EXCUSE ME, SOME OF OUR COMMERCIAL AREAS THAT SUPPORT RESTAURANTS AND RETAIL AREAS BACK UP TO A SINGLE FAMILY HOMES, OR THEY MAY BACK UP TO A SCHOOL. AND SO THOSE USES MIGHT BE COMPATIBLE NORMALLY IN A RESTAURANT, BUT THEY MAY NOT BE COMPATIBLE TO STAY OPEN UNTIL 2:00 IN THE MORNING. IF THE IF THE QUEUING AND THE MENU BOARD AND THE MICROPHONE AND THE SPEAKERS ARE WITHIN 100FT OF BACK DOOR TO ONE OF OUR RESIDENTS. SO IT'S IMPORTANT FOR US TO PUT CONDITIONS ON THAT, SAY IT'S OKAY TO HAVE THAT DRIVE THROUGH DURING. I'LL JUST SAY DAYLIGHT HOURS WHEN YOU KNOW PEOPLE ARE OUT AND AROUND, BUT IT'S NOT OKAY FOR IT TO BE OPEN AT MIDNIGHT AT 12:00, WITH THE 
          [00:25:02]
SPEAKER GOING AND THE PEOPLE RESPONDING AND PEOPLE DRIVING THROUGH ALL NIGHT AFTER THEY GET OFF OF WORK LATE, OR THEY'VE BEEN OUT PARTYING LATE AND THEY WANT TO STOP AT THE MCDONALD'S AND HAVE TO GO THROUGH THERE FOR CITIZENS THAT ARE TRYING TO GET TO SLEEP, TO HEAR THAT ALL NIGHT. SO ANYTIME YOU GET THESE SPECIAL USE PERMITS, THEY MIGHT BE COMPATIBLE. THEY MIGHT BE INCOMPATIBLE DEPENDING ON WHERE THEY ARE. AND YOU HAVE THE ABILITY TO PUT REASONABLE CONDITIONS ON THOSE USES. AND I USE THE DRIVE THROUGH. WE SHOULD WITH ANY DRIVE THROUGH, ALWAYS. 
          IS THERE ENOUGH QUEUING AREA FOR THE CARS TO BACK UP? IS THE LIGHTING BLEED OVER TO THE NEIGHBORS? DOES THIS? IS THE SPEAKER TOO LOUD? IS WHAT ARE THEY SERVING? YOU KNOW NOW YOU CAN YOU CAN GET DAIQUIRIS OR WINE DAIQUIRIS OR THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. KIND OF ALCOHOLIC DRINKS DO YOU WANT? IS THAT REALLY IS THAT USE. AND I'M NOT TELLING YOU IT IS OR IT ISN'T, BUT YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO ASK QUESTIONS AND YOU HAVE THE RIGHT TO PUT WHAT I CALL REASONABLE CONDITIONS ON THAT USE. DEPENDING ON WHERE IT IS, IT'S NEXT TO A SCHOOL. DO YOU WANT, YOU KNOW, THAT KIND OF ACTIVITY GOING ON WITH KIDS? IT MIGHT BE AN ELEMENTARY SCHOOL VERSUS A HIGH SCHOOL. IT MIGHT BE A TOTALLY DIFFERENT SET OF CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT YOU'VE GOT THE RIGHT AND YOU PROBABLY HAVE THE OBLIGATION TO PUT REASONABLE CONDITIONS ON THAT USE. SO IT IS COMPATIBLE WITH THE SURROUNDING USES. SO ANYTIME YOU GET AN SUP, YOU KNOW, YOU NEED A LITTLE SCRUTINY BY YOU AND STAFF TO MAKE SURE THAT THAT USE. BECAUSE IF IT WAS JUST WE DON'T WE DON'T CARE. WE WOULD HAVE JUST MADE IT A USE OF RIGHT AND WOULDN'T BE BOTHERING YOU. BUT THE COUNCIL HAS MADE A POLICY DECISION THAT THOSE ARE WORTH YOUR SCRUTINY, WORTH YOUR USE OF REASONABLE DISCRETION TO LIMIT WHAT GOES ON THERE. SO THAT WOULD BE JUST AN EXAMPLE. PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS ARE LIKE I SAY, THEY'RE USED IN SOME COMMUNITIES MORE THAN OTHERS. IT DOES GIVE US AN OPPORTUNITY. AND WHAT THAT SPECIALTY REGULATION IS, WE HAVE LIMITATIONS. YOU KNOW, I'LL GET YOU BACK TO YOUR END ZONE, BACK TO YOUR ORDINANCE. WHEN WE CAN USE THESE, IT'S USUALLY FOR LARGER TRACTS OF LAND THAT CAN ACCOMMODATE MULTIPLE USES. WE CAN CHANGE IN THERE. WE ACTUALLY WRITE THE ZONING TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS OF THAT TRACT OF LAND. SO IT ALLOWS US TO MIX USES NORMALLY THAT WE SEGREGATE THOSE USES. WE DON'T LIKE SF SEVEN SECONDS INSIDE SF 10S BECAUSE WE WANT THEM TO KIND OF BE ALL THE SAME SIZE HOUSES AND THE SAME KIND OF INTENSITY OR DENSITY OF USE TOGETHER. WE DON'T LIKE TO MIX RESIDENTIAL WITH COMMERCIAL, BUT IN A PLANNED DEVELOPMENT WE MAY WISH TO DO SO BECAUSE OF THE PRODUCT THAT THE APPLICANT IS TRYING TO BRING TO US. AND IF IT'S SOMETHING WE WANT, WE HAVE THE ABILITY TO WRITE THOSE REGULATIONS TO FIT THE LAND OR TO REDEVELOP. YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE A LOT OF REDEVELOPMENT IN OUR COMMUNITY. SINCE WE'RE BUILT OUT, AND BY USING BY A DEVELOPER PUTTING TOGETHER TRACTS OF LAND THAT THEY'RE ABLE TO ACCUMULATE THROUGH PURCHASE, THEY MAY ACCUMULATE USES THAT HAVE A RESIDENTIAL COMPONENT, HAVE IN THIS DOWNTOWN DISTRICT, WE HAVE A LOT OF BUSINESSES BACK UP TO RESIDENCES. WE MAY HAVE THE VISION HERE THAT WE WANT TO CHANGE THAT AREA AND MAKE IT MORE KIND OF A LIVE WORK AREA WHERE WE HAVE SOME OLDER HOMES MAY BE CONVERTED TO OFFICES, AND THEY'RE OKAY BECAUSE THEY'RE ONLY OPEN FROM 8 TO 5. SO IF I LIVE NEXT DOOR TO A HOUSE THAT IS MAYBE AN OFFICE, THAT WOULDN'T BE NECESSARILY INCOMPATIBLE BECAUSE THEY'RE GONE AFTER I GET HOME. AND SO IT'S QUIET. IT DOESN'T UPSET THE NEIGHBORHOOD, AND IT ALLOWS US TO USE THIS TOOL TO REDEVELOP OUR TOWN. SO YOU'LL SEE SOME OF THOSE COME FORWARD. AGAIN. YOU HAVE LOTS OF DISCRETION, EVEN IF STAFF WERE TO MAKE A RECOMMENDATION TO YOU FOR THIS, USE THAT USE. MAYBE RELAX A HEIGHT REQUIREMENT, MAYBE RELAX A SIDE YARD SETBACK OR A REAR 
          [00:30:01]
YARD. YOU HAVE DISCRETION TO PUT SOME ADDITIONAL REGULATIONS IN PLACE TO FIT THE REGULATIONS TO THE LAND. AND TO THE USE, AND TO THE SIZE AND MASS OF THE BUILDINGS. THERE ARE THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DO WHEN WE DO PLAN DEVELOPMENTS. YOU GENERALLY WILL SEE THE PLAT PROCESS ALSO ACCOMPANY THIS, AND WE WILL ALWAYS HAVE A SITE PLAN, WHICH MEANS WE'LL HAVE DETAILS OF THE RECONSTRUCTION OR NEW BUILDINGS WHERE THEY'RE GOING TO GO, WHAT SIZE THEY ARE AND WHAT THE USES ARE GOING TO BE. ANY QUESTIONS? SO FAR? YES. EARLIER YOU MENTIONED THAT OUR TOWN HAS ALREADY BUILT OUT AND THEY HAVE. I THINK YOU USE MAIN STREET AS AN EXAMPLE WHERE YOU HAVE BUSINESSES DOWN AT THE BOTTOM AND THEN RESIDENTIAL AT THE TOP. AS FAR AS LIVING SPACES. YES. SO IF SOMEBODY CAME TO US AND SAID WE WOULD LIKE TO TAKE A STRIP MALL THAT THEY HAVE AND THEY WANT TO ADD LIVING SPACES ON THE TOP OF THAT, REDO THE BOTTOM WHERE IT'S ALL BUSINESS AND AT THE TOP THEY HAVE MAYBE 2 TO 3 FLOORS OF LIVING SPACE. GOING INTO THAT AND LOOKING AT ALL THE ASPECTS OF WHAT IT'S ZONED FOR, WHAT IT BACKS UP TO, WHAT OTHER BUSINESSES ARE IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD, HOW CLOSE THEY ARE TO THE BUSINESS AREA AS OPPOSED TO THE RESIDENTIAL AREA. WHEN YOU'RE LOOKING AT THAT TYPE OF ZONING, IS IT OUR RESPONSIBILITY AS A COMMISSION TO THEN SAY WE NEED TO TAKE A LOOK AT THAT, NOT ONLY WHAT THE RESIDENTS ARE GOING TO COME BACK AND SAY, BUT WE'RE WHAT WE'RE LOOKING AT WHEN WE GO TO SEE IT. YEAH, I MEAN, WHEN YOU'RE ASKED TO COME HERE AND MAKE A DECISION, YOU SEE SOMETHING FOR THE FIRST TIME, IT MAY TAKE YOU MORE THAN ONE LOOK AND HOPEFULLY IF THE CITIZENS EITHER ARE FOR IT OR AGAINST IT, THAT THEY'LL COME DOWN HERE AND SPEAK. THAT'S WHAT'S AFFORDED TO THEM. THAT OPPORTUNITY THAT'S PUBLIC HEARING THERE. BUT SOMETIMES YOU MAY ASK QUESTIONS THAT THE DEVELOPER DOESN'T HAVE AN ANSWER TO. YEAH. AND I WOULD RATHER YOU CONTINUE THE PUBLIC HEARING, IF NEED BE, TO ANOTHER MEETING NIGHT, BECAUSE I WANT YOU TO BE SURE OF WHAT YOU'RE DOING. AND AGAIN, YOU ALSO MENTIONED THAT IN THE VERY BEGINNING, THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN THAT THAT IS THE PRIMARY FOCUS OF OUR OUR COMPREHENSIVE PLAN TO, YOU KNOW, MOVE OUR TOWN FORWARD OR MOVE OUR COMMUNITIES FORWARD TO INVEST AND PLAN BUSINESSES, NEIGHBORHOODS, RESIDENTIAL AREAS, COMMERCIAL AREAS THAT WILL MOVE OUR OUR CITY FORWARD. AND A LOT OF TIMES I KIND OF SEE THE SAME KIND OF LITTLE BUSINESSES. THEY LAST FOR A LITTLE WHILE AND THEN THEY'RE GONE. AND SO THIS REPEATING TYPE OF OKAY TO SAY IT'S OKAY TO HAVE THAT BUSINESS AND THEN LOOK AT THE VIABILITY OF WHAT THAT BUSINESS BRINGS. IT'S YOUR JOB TO GIVE THE MARKETPLACE THE OPPORTUNITY, EVEN IF YOU HAVE, YOU KNOW, ONE OF THE STRUGGLES THAT COUNCILS AND COMMISSIONS HAVE IS I CAN ALLOW FOR THESE USES, BUT I CAN'T MAKE SOMEONE I CAN'T FORCE ANYONE TO DO THAT. I CAN'T FORCE ANYONE OR THE MARKET MAY NOT MAKE IT SUCCESSFUL. YOU KNOW, IF I WON'T GET INTO THIS BECAUSE IT'S PROBABLY HAS A SEMINAR ALL OF ITS OWN, IT'S CALLED FORM BASED ZONING. WE DON'T CARE WHAT THE USES ARE. WE CARE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE. I KNOW YOU, IF YOU GO TO IF YOU EVER BEEN TO PHILADELPHIA AND GO TO SOUTH PHILADELPHIA, YOU'LL SEE PEOPLE THAT THERE ARE GOBS OF BUSINESSES DOWNSTAIRS IN THE APARTMENTS UPSTAIRS. AND WHOEVER RUNS THE BUSINESS LIVES UPSTAIRS. IT'S THOSE NEIGHBORHOODS. BROOKLYN IS THE SAME WAY BECAUSE THEY'RE OLD. WELL, NOW IT'S POPULAR THING AND IT'S CALLED THEY'RE REVITALIZE THOSE AREAS BY HAVING BUSINESSES THAT THE PEOPLE THAT WANT TO LIVE IN, THAT KIND OF SWANK, UPSCALE MILLENNIAL NEIGHBORHOOD, THEY HAVE USES THAT APPEAL TO THAT DEMOGRAPHIC. AND YOU MAY WANT TO REDEVELOP. THAT'S ONE OF THE STRUGGLES YOU'VE HAD WITH YOUR DOWNTOWN DISTRICT. YOU HAD A VISION. BUT THAT VISION, THE MARKETPLACE HASN'T. GRABBED ON 
          [00:35:03]
TO THAT VISION. SO MAYBE THAT'S WHAT THE COMP PLAN IS DOING. THAT'S ONE OF THE FOCUSES OF THAT COMP PLAN IS TO MAYBE LOOK AT THAT DOWNTOWN DISTRICT WITHOUT GETTING INTO A ZONING CASE AND SAYING, MAYBE WE NEED TO DO SOMETHING ELSE IN ADDITION, OR WE'VE MISSED THE MARKET SOMEHOW, AND YOU GET NEW INPUT AS TO WHO. WHAT'S YOUR VISION OF WHO YOU WANT TO LIVE HERE? YOU WANT YOUNG PEOPLE TO LIVE HERE. THEN YOU HAVE TO HAVE THINGS THAT YOUNG PEOPLE WANT IN THEIR NEIGHBORHOOD THAT MAY NOT BE THE SAME THING THAT THIS 70 YEAR OLD GUY WANTS IN HIS NEIGHBORHOOD, BUT THERE HAS TO BE A BALANCE IN THAT AREA OF TOWN, YOU KNOW? AND THEN THERE'S SOME PHYSICAL THINGS THAT WE HAVE TO DEAL WITH, LIKE THE RAILROAD AND HOW IT SPLITS YOUR TOWN OVER THERE IN THAT PART, TOO. AND THEN PARKING AND HOW ARE YOU GOING TO GET THERE? WHO'S COMING AND WHO'S GOING, ALL THOSE QUESTIONS. YOU'RE GOING TO GET TO ASK AND YOU'RE GOING TO STRUGGLE WITH. AND IT'S NOT GOING TO BE EASY. AND IT MAY TAKE YOU MORE THAN ONE MEETING TO GET THROUGH A ZONING CASE, BUT YOU'RE, YOU'RE YOU'VE GOT, YOU KNOW, THAT'S THE EXACT QUESTION YOU NEED TO ASK. THAT'S THE TASK THAT YOU'RE ALL GOING TO HAVE AS YOU GO FORWARD. IT'S EASY WHEN YOU HAVE SINGLE, WHEN YOU HAVE LOTS OF LAND AND YOU'RE PROSPEROUS AND THERE'S NOTHING ON THE LAND AND IT'S FLAT AND YOU NEED PEOPLE, AND YOU WANT PEOPLE AND YOU WANT CERTAIN SIZE HOUSES AND ALL THAT KIND OF THING. SO THEY KEEP BUILDING THEM, YOU KNOW. SO THOSE ARE EASY ZONING CASES, BUT THEN THEY TRY TO PUT ALL THE AMENITIES AND ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. I REMEMBER WHEN, WHEN THESE TOWNS, WHEN I WAS A YOUNG LAWYER AND WE WERE TINIER COUNCIL MEETINGS, THE LAST 1 OR 2:00 IN THE MORNING BECAUSE THE ZONING CASES, TRYING TO GET ALL THE THINGS THAT OUR CITIZENS WANTED IN, IN, IN THOSE ZONING DISTRICTS. BUT, YOU KNOW, THAT WAS 30 YEARS AGO, 40 YEARS AGO. THINGS HAVE CHANGED. YOU KNOW, OUR COMMUNITY IS DIFFERENT. IT'S BETTER, IN MY OPINION, BUT IT'S DIFFERENT. AND SO WE HAVE TO ACCOMMODATE THOSE NEW USES. YOU KNOW, WHEN MOST OF THE STRIP MALLS WERE, THEY WERE BUILT WITHIN A MAYBE EIGHT YEAR, TEN YEAR PERIOD. THEY WERE ALL SHINY AND NEW THEN. NOW THEY'RE NOT. ANOTHER QUESTION. YOU MENTIONED A FEW TIMES THAT AS COMMISSIONERS, PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY IS TO PUT RESTRICTIONS IN PLACE THAT CONSIDER NEIGHBORHOODS OR CONSIDER THE RESIDENTS OF THE AREAS. MY QUESTION SPECIFICALLY, AND I DON'T KNOW IF IT'S SPECIFIC TO PLANNED DEVELOPMENTS. IT MAY GO ACROSS THE SUPS AS WELL, BUT WHEN THOSE ARE PUT IN PLACE, IS IT ALSO PART OF OUR RESPONSIBILITY TO CONSIDER WHO WOULD REVIEW, ENFORCE OR INSPECT WHATEVER ITEM WE'RE ADDING TO THE RESTRICTION WE'RE ADDING OF THE DAY? IF YOU HAVE CONDITIONS ON THERE, IT'S THE ZONING OFFICIAL'S RESPONSIBILITY TO ENFORCE. SO IF THERE ARE OUR RESTRICTIONS ON RUNNING THE DRIVE THRU. NO DRIVE THRU AFTER 11. IT'S UP TO OUR CODE ENFORCEMENT AND ZONING OFFICIAL TO ENFORCE THAT. IF IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE AND IF THEY DON'T, THE REMEDY IS NOT ONLY CAN THEY GET A TICKET, BUT WE CAN TAKE AWAY WHAT WE GIVETH. AND ONE OF THE THINGS THAT WE HAVE DONE IN THE PAST IS SAYS, WELL, WE'LL PUT A SUNSET PROVISION ON OUR SUP TO MAKE SURE YOU BEHAVE YOURSELF, BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T BEHAVE YOURSELF, THEN WE'LL TAKE THAT SUP AWAY BECAUSE YOU'RE NOT BEHAVING YOURSELF OR FOR THE PLANNED DEVELOPMENT. IS IT THE SAME THING WHERE IT WOULD BE THE ZONING OR CODE ENFORCEMENT? WHO WOULD? IT'S THE SAME GROUPS. AND THEN THEY WOULD HAVE TO, AT LEAST INITIALLY COMPLY WITH WHEN THEY COME AND GET THEIR PERMIT. 
          SO IF THERE'S A CHANGE IN A SETBACK OR A CHANGE IN THE QUEUING OR WHERE THE MENU BOARD IS, THEN WE NEED TO IT'S IN THE ORDINANCE, THE PERMITTING CLERK SHOULD HAVE A COPY OF THE ORDINANCE, AND THEN MAKE SURE THAT THE PERMIT FOR THAT AND OUR BUILDING OFFICIAL, WHEN THEY DO THEIR INSPECTIONS, THEY'RE SUPPOSED TO CHECK THOSE THINGS. THANK YOU. ALL RIGHT. SO THAT'S KIND OF THE ZONING END OF THIS. ONE OF THE THINGS I TOLD YOU ABOUT PLATTING, PLATTING IN A QUASI LEGISLATIVE CAPACITY, YOU'RE ACTING IN A QUASI ADMINISTRATIVE CAPACITY. AND IN THAT REGARD, YOU LOSE SOME OF YOUR DISCRETION. SO YOU'LL HEAR LAWYERS, YOU'LL HEAR PLANNERS 
          [00:40:12]
TALK ABOUT YOU HAVE A MINISTERIAL DUTY TO APPROVE A PLAT. AND THE PLAT, LIKE I SAID, IS AN ENGINEERING DOCUMENT. WHAT'S THE DRAINAGE? WHAT'S THE WHERE ARE THE DRIVEWAYS CUT? WHAT'S THE ACCESS IN? AND OUT OF THERE FROM A TRAFFIC STANDPOINT, THOSE ARE ALL ENGINEERING STANDARDS THAT ARE IN OUR ENGINEERING MANUAL. THEY'RE IN THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE ABOUT SPACING. IT'S A MECHANICAL APPLICATION. NOW THERE IS AN OCCASION WHEN YOU MAY BE ASKED TO WAIVE ONE OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS. I WOULD SUGGEST TO YOU THAT EITHER THE CITY ENGINEER OR SOMEONE ACTING IN THE ENGINEERING CAPACITY NEEDS TO MAKE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO YOU. I WOULD BE SKEPTICAL IF A DEVELOPER EVER MADE THAT RECOMMENDATION TO YOU WITHOUT THE APPROVAL OF THE CITY ENGINEERING DEPARTMENT. SO THAT WOULD BE VERY RARE. BUT I WILL TELL YOU THAT THERE IS CASE LAW IN TEXAS THAT SAYS IF THE PLAT MEETS ALL THE REQUIREMENTS OF OUR SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND OUR ENGINEERING STANDARDS, THE COMMISSION IN THIS CASE OR THE COUNCIL HAS AN OBLIGATION TO APPROVE IT. AND SO YOUR JOB IN THAT CAPACITY IS TO MAKE SURE WE AND STAFF DO OUR JOB. SO IF WE HAVE DONE OUR JOB AND IT MEETS THOSE REQUIREMENTS, YOU'RE OBLIGATED TO APPROVE IT. YOU'RE NOT OBLIGATED TO WAIVE ANY OF THOSE REQUIREMENTS. THE COUNCIL'S GIVEN YOU THE ABILITY TO DO THAT UNDER EXTRAORDINARY CIRCUMSTANCES. BUT I WOULD AT LEAST THINK THAT WE WOULD WANT A RECOMMENDATION FROM OUR PROFESSIONAL ENGINEERING FIRM THAT THAT WAIVER IS WARRANTED FOR A LEGITIMATE REASON, AND THAT THE NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE PROPERTY OWNER WOULD NOT BE ADVERSELY AFFECTED BY THAT CHANGE. SOMETIMES IF THERE'S A BIG TREE AND I CAN'T RUN THE SLOUGH RIGHT THROUGH THE MIDDLE OF THE TREE, I MIGHT HAVE TO MOVE IT TO THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT, BUT THE SPACING MAY BE OFF BY A FOOT AND A HALF. I'LL RELY ON MY ENGINEER TO TELL ME IT'S OKAY TO MOVE IT TO THE LEFT OR THE RIGHT, BECAUSE I DON'T WANT TO LOSE A TREE. THERE'S GOT TO BE A LEGITIMATE REASON FOR I. MY QUESTION IS IF THE IF THE ENGINEER THAT IS PREPARING TO MAKE SOME TYPE OF CHANGE IN A NEIGHBORHOOD AS FAR AS A STREET LIGHT OR ADDING A WALL OR, OR OR AN INTERSECTION IN A NEIGHBORHOOD AND THE REQUIREMENTS, ACCORDING TO YOU HAVE BEEN MET, THEN YOU'RE SAYING THAT AS A COMMISSION, WE ARE REQUIRED TO APPROVE IT IF IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE ZONING OR NOT. THE ZONING ORDINANCE, BUT THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE AND THE ENGINEERING MANUAL. YOU DO NOT HAVE DISCRETION TO DENY IT. OKAY. SO IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE SUBDIVISION ORDINANCE OR SEPARATE ORDINANCE IN YOUR ZONING ORDINANCE. OKAY. BECAUSE I MEAN, I'VE NOTICED I MEAN, SO MANY TIMES IN MY OWN NEIGHBORHOOD OBSTRUCTIONS. AND I WAS WONDERING HOW WAS THIS APPROVED BY A ZONING BOARD? I'LL TELL YOU SOMETHING ABOUT ENGINEERING STUFF. WHEN IT WAS APPROVED, IT WAS PROBABLY FINE. I WILL TELL YOU THINGS LIKE DRAINAGE AND SLOUGHS AND ROAD CONDITIONS DEPENDING ON WHEN IT WAS APPROVED. THEY HAVE TO BE MAINTAINED. YOU KNOW, I SEE THIS ALL THE TIME AND I'M NOT PICKING ON DUNCANVILLE. THEY'LL HAVE WHAT I CALL A DRAINAGE SLEUTH. 
          SO THERE'S TWO LOTS. SO THE SLOPE AND IN BETWEEN THOSE LOTS THERE'S BASICALLY IT'S A DRAINAGE SLOUGH AND IT DRAINS YOUR HOUSE. IT TAKES THE WATER AWAY FROM YOUR HOUSE AND THE PAD SITE, AND IT PUTS IT IN KIND OF A CUT THAT WHEN THEY GRADE THOSE LOTS, THEY CUT THAT. SO IT SLOPES DOWN AND THEN IT RUNS OUT TO THE STREET. WELL, IF YOU DON'T KEEP THAT CLEANED OUT, IT SILTS IN AND THEN IT DOESN'T WORK. AND THAT'S PROPERTY OWNER. AND YOU KNOW, I BOUGHT MY FIRST HOUSE, I THINK I DIDN'T KNOW THAT. I KNOW IT NOW BECAUSE I'M A LAWYER. RIGHT. I'VE SEEN IT A BUNCH OF TIMES. SO THESE SO THERE'S A LOT OF THINGS GOING ONGOING, ONGOING, ONGOING. 
          EVERYBODY COMPLAINS THAT WE'VE BEEN HAVING THIS PROBLEM JUST LIKE THAT. OR SOMEONE HAS TO GO 
          [00:45:05]
OUT ALMOST A 2 OR 3FT PAST A WALL SO THEY COULD SEE THE TRAFFIC COMING FROM ONE SIDE BECAUSE THEY CAN'T SEE IT. BUT THE CITY BUILT A CITY MAY HAVE NOT BUILT IT, CITY MAY HAVE ALLOWED IT TO BE BUILT WELL. THEY ALLOWED IT TO A RETENTION WALL THAT RUNS DOWN THE STREET. 
          AND SO WHEN YOU'RE TRYING TO RECTIFY, HERE'S WHAT HAPPENS. MISS O'BRIEN, WAS THAT A FOUR LANE OR AN EIGHT LANE ROAD WHEN THAT WALL WAS BUILT, IT MIGHT HAVE BEEN A TWO LANE ROAD, AND THAT WALL WAS 25FT. AND NOW WE'VE WIDENED THE ROAD. AND I CAN SEE ALL THE WAY DOWN THERE. 
          BUT SEE, AND THAT'S THE ISSUE WHEN WE HAVE ZONING AND PLATTING OF SUBDIVISIONS THAT HAVE NEED MAJOR UPDATING BECAUSE THEY ARE NO LONGER VIABLE. IT WAS 20 YEARS AGO. IT WAS 15 YEARS AGO. 
          BUT THE CITY HAS ALREADY PLATTED THEIR PLATS ALREADY GONE. AND IN THE BOOKS AND IN THE CABINET, IT'S NEW DEVELOPMENT AND A NEW PLAT. SO IF WE RAISED ALL THOSE HOUSES. OKAY, WE MAY HAVE TO HAVE A NEW PLAT IF WE'VE CHANGED THE ZONING. THEY WERE SF7 HOMES. NOW THEY'RE SF TEN. SO THE PROPERTY HAS TO BE REPLANTED SO YOU'LL GET A NEW LOOK AT IT AND IT'LL HAVE TO MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. IF THE ROAD IS NOW FOUR LANES WIDE INSTEAD OF TWO LANE. SO THE SITE TRIANGLE IS DIFFERENT. THE ENGINEER IS GOING TO SAY WE'RE GOING TO, YOU KNOW, YOU CAN ONLY BUILD YOUR WALL TEN FEET, NOT 20FT. AND I'M TELLING YOU, THAT'S A LOT OF WHAT HAPPENS. ANOTHER THING THAT HAPPENS IS AND THERE'S NOTHING WE CAN DO ABOUT IT ALL, HOW CAN I SAY HALF THIS COUNTY GOES THROUGH TEN MILE CREEK? WE DON'T HAVE ANY CONTROL OVER WHAT'S BUILT IN DALLAS, WHAT'S BUILT IN GRAND PRAIRIE, WHAT'S BUILT IN DESOTO. BUT WE GET ALL THE WATER BECAUSE THAT'S WHERE IT COMES FROM. AND SO THAT'S WHY STAFF HAS TO DO HYDROLOGY STUDIES ALL THE TIME. BUT WE HAVE TO BALANCE WHAT IS IT FAIR TO DO TO ME BECAUSE I BOUGHT THIS LAND UNDER THESE CONDITIONS? CAN YOU IMPOSE A RESPONSIBILITY ON ME TO FIX SOMETHING THAT'S NOT EVEN IN YOUR TOWN OR OUTSIDE THE PARAMETERS OF MY LAND? BECAUSE THAT'S CALLED AN EXACTION. IT'S A TAX AGAINST ME TO MAKE SURE THAT SOMEONE ELSE THAT I CAN FIX ON SOMEONE ELSE'S LAND. SO THOSE ARE SOME OF THE THINGS THAT STAFF AND I STRUGGLE WITH AND THE COUNCIL STRUGGLES WITH IS THOSE KIND OF ISSUES, BECAUSE LIKE, YOU KNOW, I SWEAR TO, GOSH, YOU KNOW, IF IT RAINS A QUARTER OF AN INCH, TEN MILE CREEK FILLS UP AND THAT'S BECAUSE, YOU KNOW, HALF THE COUNTY DRAINS THROUGH IT. AND THEY'VE BUILT ALL THAT CONCRETE, YOU KNOW, LOOK AT ALL THE BUILDING THAT'S GOING ON IN GRAND PRAIRIE, SOUTH DALLAS, DESOTO AND ALL THAT WATER IS GOING IN THAT TEN MILE CREEK. 
          AND IT'S COMING THROUGH OUR TOWN MORE FASTER. AND SO WE HAVE, YOU KNOW, THOSE THINGS WE STRUGGLE WITH THAT TOO, BECAUSE NOW THE FLOODPLAIN HAS CHANGED, BECAUSE THAT MAP WILL NEVER BE STATIC. 
          EITHER MAY BE BIGGER. IT MAY BE SMALLER. OKAY. I HAVE A QUESTION. WHEN WE ARE MEETING ON A PLAT, MY ONLY QUESTION IS I HEARD YOU SAY THE THING ABOUT HOW WE CANNOT IF EVERY ALL THE REQUIREMENTS HAVE BEEN MET, THEN THAT THE CHANGE IN A PLAN OR NEW PLAN SHOULD BE APPROVED. BUT HOW DO WE HOW DO WE HELP THE CITIZENS TO UNDERSTAND WHEN THEY COME AND THEY SAY, I DON'T WANT THIS, IT'S NOT GOOD FOR WHERE I LIVE. YOU KNOW, THIS PERSON IS BRINGING THIS HERE. AND WHEN WE KNOW THAT THE PERSON HAS MET ALL THE REQUIREMENTS, WHAT IS WHAT WHAT CAN WE DO TO REALLY MAKE IT EASIER ON THE CITIZENS WHO COME AND WHO HAVE WHO ARE UPSET ABOUT IT? I THINK WE NEED TO DO A BETTER JOB OF EXPLAINING THAT TO THEM. AND STAFF NEEDS TO EXPLAIN THAT TO THEM. WE HAVE A LIMIT IN WHAT WE CAN DO NOW. SOMETIMES WE CAN GENTLY, MAYBE SUGGEST THINGS THAT THE DEVELOPER IN HIS BEST INTEREST WOULD DO, EVEN THOUGH THEY GO BEYOND HOPEFULLY IT'S STAFF WE CAN HELP THAT SAY, 
          [00:50:05]
YEAH, I KNOW YOU MEET THESE REQUIREMENTS, BUT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE THESE NEIGHBORS DOWN THERE POKING YOUR EYE OUT WITH A PITCHFORK. IF YOU DON'T TAKE CARE OF THIS PROBLEM. AND A LOT OF TIMES THEY WILL, BECAUSE THE LAST THING THAT IF I'M INVESTING MILLIONS OF DOLLARS TO BUY PROPERTY AND DEVELOP IT, THE LAST THING I NEED TO DO IS GET DOWN HERE ON A ON A MONDAY NIGHT WITH Y'ALL, OR A TUESDAY NIGHT WITH THE COUNCIL AND HAVE EVERYBODY IN THE ROOM ANGRY AT ME. THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO BE GOOD. HE HE'S NOT GOING TO FARE WELL WITH THAT EITHER. SO SOMETIMES WE HAVE TO YOU KNOW, PERSUADE THEM IN THE GENTLEST WAY TO TRY TO DO SOME MAYBE A LITTLE EXTRA THING THAT WOULD HELP THEM IN THE END, BECAUSE IT MAY EVEN HELP THEIR DRAINAGE OVER AND BEYOND. SO AND SOMETIMES THE DEVELOPER I DON'T WANT NOT ALL DEVELOPERS ARE BAD, BUT IF YOU GET A GOOD ONE, THEN YOU CAN TALK THEM INTO DOING SOME THINGS THAT HELP THEM TO WITH Y'ALL, BECAUSE YOU'RE GOING TO ASK THAT QUESTION. YOU KNOW, MR. HAGER, COME DOWN HERE AND TOLD ME I HAD TO DO SOMETHING. I DON'T HAVE TO DO ANYTHING. THERE'S JUST CONSEQUENCES IF I DON'T. AND I'D RATHER HAVE MR. HAGER MAD AT ME THAN MY THE PEOPLE I LIVE NEXT DOOR TO. SO WE'LL TRY TO TAKE CARE OF THAT FOR YOU. ANOTHER QUESTION, A QUESTION ABOUT PLATS. AND THIS MAY BE VERY SPECIFIC. I BELIEVE WE'VE HAD THIS HAPPEN A COUPLE OF TIMES. SO IF IT'S A REPLAT REQUEST AND IT MEETS ALL OF THE REQUIREMENTS AND BASED ON WHAT'S BEEN PUT IN THE NEIGHBORHOOD OR WHAT'S CURRENTLY BUILT IN THE NEIGHBORHOODS, THE OTHER HOUSES, THIS ODD SHAPED PLAT IS NOT GOING TO BE ABLE TO DO TO ACCOMMODATE SOMETHING SIMILAR. AND I'LL TO GET A LITTLE MORE SPECIFIC EXAMPLE, LET'S SAY EVERY OTHER HOUSE IS, I DON'T KNOW, 100 OR 50FT ACROSS THE FRONT, BUT BECAUSE OF THIS PLAT AND IT'S ODD SHAPE, IT CAN'T BE 50FT ACROSS THE FRONT. IT'LL ONLY BE TEN FEET AND ALL THE RESIDENTS ARE UP IN ARMS, BECAUSE THIS IS GOING TO CHANGE THE LOOK OF OUR NEIGHBORHOOD. WHAT YOU'RE TELLING US IS IF IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS OF THE PLAT, WE APPROVE IT. AND WE DON'T TAKE THAT INTO CONSIDERATION. IS THAT TRUE? THAT WOULD BE TRUE. OKAY. HOWEVER, THERE'S A REMEDY FOR THE LANDOWNER AND THE LANDOWNER. 
          OH, I'M SORRY, THERE IS A REMEDY FOR THE LANDOWNER. AND THE LANDOWNER COULD GET A THING CALLED A VARIANCE. AND THEY HAVE TO GO TO THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT TO GET IT. SO IF YOU HAVE THAT ODD SHAPED BECAUSE OF THE TOPOGRAPHY, YOU KNOW, IF THERE'S A SLOPE IN THE BACK AND SO INSTEAD OF BEING IT'S SUPPOSED TO BE LIKE A 50 FOOT SQUARE, IT'S 50FT IN THE FRONT. AND MAYBE. 48.5FT, YOU CAN GET A TWO FOOT VARIANCE BECAUSE OF THE TOPOGRAPHY. AND THEN ONCE THAT VARIANCE IS GRANTED, THEN IT MEETS THE REQUIREMENTS BECAUSE IT MEETS THE SETBACK. SO THERE ARE THERE ARE WAYS THAT WE CAN HELP THE PROPERTY OWNER OR THE DEVELOPER GET THAT VARIANCE BEFORE THEY COME TO YOU. SO BUT AND YOU WOULD HAVE A COPY OF THAT ORDER THAT, THAT WOULD ACCOMPANY. BECAUSE ONCE THE ORDER IS GIVEN, I PUT THE LOT AND BLOCK AND ALL THAT GOOD STUFF ON IT. SO IT'S FOREVER. AND SO THEN IT WOULD MEET THE REQUIREMENTS. OKAY. THANK YOU. 
          ONCE A VARIANCE IS GRANTED, THAT VARIANCE IS IN PLACE PERMANENTLY. PERMANENTLY. IT DOES NOT HAVE TO BE APPROVED BY THE CITY COUNCIL. NO, IT IS APPROVED BY THE BOARD BECAUSE THAT'S A BOARD RATHER THAN A COMMISSION. YES. THEY ACT AS A QUASI JUDICIAL BODY, AND THE ONLY APPEAL FROM THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT IS THE DISTRICT COUR. AND THAT'S WHY IT'S PERMANENT. 
          THAT'S WHY THERE HAS TO BE AN ORDER. AND THAT ORDER GETS FILED IN THE DEED RECORDS. SO WHOEVER BUYS THAT PROPERTY AFTER THAT GETS A COPY OF THE BOARD'S ORDER. SO THAT THEY KNOW THEY HAVE THAT SETBACK. I ENCOURAGE US TO PUT A COPY OF THAT WITH THE PLAT OF WHATEVER SUBDIVISION IT IS IN, SO THAT WE CAN KEEP TRACK OF THEM AS WELL. THERE'S SOME THINGS THAT YOU'LL HEAR THAT LAWYERS PLANNERS WILL TALK ABOUT. THAT'S THE PROTESTS. IF YOU KNOW MORE THAN 20% OF THE LANDOWNERS, WHO OF THE PROPERTY OF THE AREA THAT'S WITHIN 200FT PROTEST IN WRITING, THERE'S A 
          [00:55:04]
SUPERMAJORITY THAT'S REQUIRED THAT REQUIRES A 4/5 VOTE OF THE OF THE BODY. AND THAT'S OF ALL THE MEMBERS. SO IF YOU WERE HERE TONIGHT, WE COULDN'T GRANT THAT APPLICATION IF THERE WAS A PROTEST, BECAUSE THERE'S NOT ENOUGH. SPOT ZONING IS ZONING. IF THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN CALLS FOR RESIDENTIAL AND WE WERE TO PUT AN AUTOMOBILE FACTORY IN THE MIDDLE OF IT, THAT SPOT ZONING, IT'S TOTALLY OUTSIDE THE REALM OF WHAT THE COMPREHENSIVE PLAN ALLOWS. AND A LOT OF TIMES, PROPERTY OWNERS THAT ARE ON THE, SAY, BORDER OF TWO AREAS IN THE COMP PLAN, THEY WILL ALSO YOU WILL SEE AND STAFF WILL BRING YOU A REQUEST FOR AN AMENDMENT TO THE COMP PLAN AND A CHANGE OF ZONING ALL AT THE SAME TIME. IT REQUIRES THAT COMP PLAN CAN BE AMENDED BY YOU, JUST LIKE THE ZONING ORDINANCE HAS TO GO TO THE COUNCIL AND BE APPROVED. SOMETIMES AN APPLICATION WILL HAVE BOTH THE COMP PLAN AND A ZONING CHANGE, AND YOU HAVE DISCRETION ON BOTH THOSE ITEMS. IF YOU DENY THE COMP PLAN AMENDMENT, YOU HAVE TO DENY THE ZONING OR YOU MAY BE GUILTY OF SPOT ZONING, TAKING IS A REGULATORY SOMEONE WILL CLAIM, WELL, I CAN ONLY REASONABLE ECONOMIC USE FOR MY PROPERTY IS TO TURN IT INTO COMMERCIAL AND IT'S RESIDENTIAL. THAT'S CALLED A REGULATORY TAKING. THAT'S PROBABLY NOT GOING TO GET THEM HOME. THERE'S SOME MORE INFORMATION HERE ABOUT THAT, BUT THAT'S WHAT THEY'RE TALKING ABOUT. NORMALLY EMINENT DOMAIN IS THOUGHT OF AS A PHYSICAL INTRUSION ON SOMEONE'S PROPERTY. I'VE TAKEN THE FRONT OF YOUR PROPERTY TO WIDEN THE ROAD. I'VE TAKEN YOUR WHOLE HOUSE TO EXPAND THE HIGHWAY. THOSE ARE TAKINGS OR EMINENT DOMAIN. THERE'S A REGULATORY TAKING WHICH YOU MIGHT OR MIGHT OR STAFF GETS ACCUSED OF, OR THE CITY GETS ACCUSED OF BY ZONING, PROPERTY. WE WON'T LET THAT HAPPEN. 
          NON-CONFORMING USES ARE USES THAT WERE ONCE ALLOWED BUT ARE NO LONGER ALLOWED BECAUSE OF A CHANGE IN ZONING. THERE'S ALSO NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURES, STRUCTURES THAT WERE BUILT PRIOR TO THE ADOPTION OF OUR CURRENT ORDINANCE MAY BE NON-CONFORMING STRUCTURES. IF A USE IS TAKING PLACE AND WE CHANGE THE ZONING FOR THAT NEIGHBORHOOD, THAT'S A NONCONFORMING USE MORATORIUM. 
          THEY'RE BASICALLY OUTLAWED UNDER STATE LAW. NOW, EXCEPT FOR A SHORT MORATORIUM OF UP TO 90 DAYS. BUT THERE HAS TO BE SOME CATASTROPHIC REASON FOR IT FOR EXAMPLE, I'VE REPRESENTED DE SOTO IN LANCASTER, AND WE'VE HAD TORNADOES OVER THERE THAT CAUSED SOME MAJOR DESTRUCTION. SO WE HAD SOME MORATORIUM THAT WERE SUPPORTED BECAUSE THE INFRASTRUCTURE WAS SEVERELY DAMAGED AND WOULDN'T SUPPORT ANY NEW ZONING APPLICATIONS. SO THAT WOULD BE VERY RARE. IT USED TO BE MORE PREVALENT BEFORE THERE WAS A CHANGE IN THE STATE LAW. ABOUT 25 YEARS AGO, VESTED RIGHTS MEANS THAT I FILED MY ZONING APPLICATION. IT'S PENDING BEFORE EITHER THIS COMMISSION OR THE COUNCIL. AND THEN I CHANGED THE REGULATIONS IN THE MIDDLE OF THE OF THE PROCESS FOR THE APPLICANT. THAT'S NOT ALLOWED. ONCE THE APPLICANT HAS FILED HIS PERMIT, HIS OR HER PERMIT, THEN THEY'RE ENTITLED TO WHATEVER THE REGULATIONS WERE AT THE TIME OF THE FILING OF THAT APPLICATION THROUGH THE END OF THE PROCESS. SO THAT'S IN CHAPTER 245 OF THE LOCAL GOVERNMENT CODE. YOU DO NOT HAVE A VESTED RIGHT TO ZONING. YOU MAY HAVE A VESTED RIGHT IN THE PLATTING. YOU MAY HAVE A VESTED RIGHT IN ANY NON-CONFORMING USE. YOU HAVE UNTIL THAT'S BEEN HANDLED PUBLIC AND CHARTER SCHOOLS. I DON'T WANT TO GET OFF INTO THIS BECAUSE WE'VE GOT ONE OF THOSE GOING AROUND. BUT I'M GOING TO TELL YOU WHAT THE LAW IS. AND I THINK IT WAS 1966. THE CITY OF AUSTIN AND I GUESS THE AUSTIN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT IN THE CITY OF SUNSET VALLEY, SUNSET VALLEY WAS KIND OF A DUNCANVILLE. IT WAS A SUBURB OF AUSTIN, BUT IT'S IN THE AUSTIN SCHOOL DISTRICT. AND THE AUSTIN SCHOOL DISTRICT DECIDED THEY WANTED TO PUT A SCHOOL IN SUNSET VALLEY. AND SO THEY WENT TO SUNSET VALLEY AND SAID, WE WANT TO PUT A SCHOOL HERE IN SUNSET 
          [01:00:01]
VALLEY. SAYS, NO, YOU'RE NOT. WE'RE NOT GOING TO GIVE YOU THE ZONING FOR IT. SO THE AUSTIN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT SUED THEM, CLAIMING THAT IT WAS UNCONSTITUTIONAL. AND THE TEXAS SUPREME COURT SAID THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT GETS TO DECIDE WHERE THEY PUT THEIR SCHOOLS. THEY HAVE THE RIGHT OF EMINENT DOMAIN. THE CITY DOES NOT HAVE A SUPERIOR RIGHT OF EMINENT DOMAI. 
          AND SO THAT SCHOOL DISTRICT CAN DECIDE WHERE THEY WANT TO PUT THAT SCHOOL. AND THAT'S BEEN THE LAW SINCE 1966. IN 1981, LOUIS NICKELS WAS REPRESENTING THE TOWN OF ADDISON AND THE DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT DECIDED THEY WANTED TO BUILD THE LOWE'S FIELD HOUSE AND PUT A BUS BARN IN THE MIDDLE OF ADDISON AND SO THEY SUED THE CITY OF ADDISON. WE REPRESENTED THE CITY OF ADDISON. IT WAS THE VERY FIRST CASE I EVER WORKED ON FOR MR. NICKELS. AND WE CLAIMED THAT THAT WASN'T A SCHOOL, THAT IT WAS AN ATHLETIC FACILITY, AND IT WAS A BUS BARN HAD NOTHING TO DO WITH SUNSET VALLEY. NOW, THE COURT OF APPEALS SAID NO. THE HOUSING OF THE CITIES OR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT'S BUS SYSTEM WAS AN INTEGRAL PART OF THEIR EDUCATIONAL MISSION, AS WELL AS THEIR ATHLETIC FACILITY, WHERE THEY HOLD AN ATHLETIC FACILITIES FOR THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND THE PHYSICAL EDUCATION OF THEIR CHILDREN, AND THEREFORE THEY LIKE SUNSET VALLEY, CITY OF ADDISON, YOU LOSE DALLAS INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, AUSTIN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, YOU WIN. RECENTLY IN THE LAST TEN YEARS, THE TEXAS ATTORNEY GENERAL SAID, YEAH, THEY GET TO DECIDE WHERE THE SCHOOL GOES. BUT THE HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE REGULATIONS OF THE CITY SHOULD APPLY TO THEM AS IT DOES TO EVERYBODY ELSE. BECAUSE IF YOU'RE GOING TO PUT THESE CHILDREN IN THERE, YOU WANT THE FIRE CODE TO APPLY. YOU WANT THE BUILDING CODE TO APPLY. 
          YOU WANT IT TO BE COMPATIBLE WITH THE NEIGHBORHOOD. YOU DON'T WANT MASS BUILDING. THAT'S TOO TALL. YOU DON'T WANT THAT BUILDING TO NOT NOT BE APPROPRIATE. SO THE OTHER HEALTH, SAFETY AND WELFARE REGULATIONS OF THE CITY APPLY TO THE SCHOOL DISTRICT AND SO NOW THAT KIND OF OPENED THE DOOR FOR US TO BE A LITTLE BIT MORE EXACTING. SO WHAT WE TEND TO DO IS REQUEST THE SCHOOL DISTRICT TO FILE AN SUPP BECAUSE THEY NEVER MEET THE SETBACK OR SIDE YARD REQUIREMENTS OF ANYTHING. THEY'RE USUALLY TOO TALL. THEY HAVE ALL KINDS OF TOYS. THEY HAVE ALL KINDS OF STRUCTURES. AND SO THAT IS HOW WE HAVE GINGERLY REGULATED THEM. THEN WE HAVE CHARTER SCHOOLS AND THEN THE STATE EDUCATION CODE WAS CHANGED A FEW YEARS BACK AND SAID A STATE CHARTER SCHOOL ENJOYS THE SAME PRIVILEGES AS AN INDEPENDENT SCHOOL DISTRICT, AND THEREFORE THEY GET THE SAME TREATMENT THAT THE SCHOOL DISTRICT GETS. AS FAR AS ZONING REGULATIONS. SO THEY GET TO DECIDE WHERE. BUT WE GET TO DECIDE WHAT IT LOOKS LIKE AND HOW. SO WE STILL HAVE A DOG IN THE HUNT. IS IT THE DOG WE HAVE IN THE HUNT WITH ANOTHER DEVELOPER? NO, BUT IT'S STILL A DOG AND IT'S STILL A HUNT, SO THAT AND YOU OBVIOUSLY HAVE ONE OF THOSE COMING DOWN THE PIKE. AND I PROBABLY DON'T NEED TO TELL YOU ALL ABOUT THAT. AND THAT WILL BE INTERESTING. SO SCHOOLS ARE A LITTLE BIT DIFFERENT. IT INCLUDES CHARTER SCHOOLS BECAUSE THEY HAVE THEY ENJOY THAT FROM THE TEXAS LEGISLATURE. BUT THOSE ARE THINGS THAT YOU NEED TO BE AWARE OF. BUT HOPEFULLY WE WILL EDUCATE YOU AS THEY COME FORWAR. 
          AGAIN, OUR CITIZENS ARE ALLOWED TO MAKE A WRITTEN PROTEST. THE 20% RULE THAT I SPOKE OF EARLIER HAS TO BE IN WRITING. OKAY, IF 20% OF THE PEOPLE GET UP HERE AND SAY THEY'RE AGAINST IT, THAT'S NOT GOOD ENOUGH. IT HAS TO BE IN WRITING BECAUSE THERE'S A CALCULATION THAT OUR PLANNING DEPARTMENT HAS TO DO BECAUSE IT'S NOT 20% OF THE PEOPLE THAT GET THE NOTICE. IT'S 20% OF THE AREA THAT'S WITHIN 200FT OF THE SUBJECT PROPERTY. SO THERE HAS TO BE A LAND CALCULATION. AND LIKE I SAY, IT REQUIRES THREE FOURTHS OF ALL THE MEMBERS OF THE COMMISSION. THAT'S THE WAY A STATUTE. SO IF THERE'S ONLY FOUR OF YOU AS THEY'RE HERE AS TONIGHT, YOU COULD NOT ACT ON THAT APPLICATION, HAVE ENOUGH TO DO A SUPERMAJORITY. AND THE SAME SAME RULE APPLIES TO COUNCIL. IF 
          [01:05:05]
YOU MAKE THE RECOMMENDATION, IF YOU DENY IT, THEN THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SUPERMAJORITY. OR IF THERE'S 20%, THEY HAVE TO HAVE A SUPERMAJORITY. AND IT'S SIX OUT OF SEVEN. WE'VE TALKED ABOUT SPOT ZONING. I'VE TALKED A LITTLE BIT ABOUT REGULATORY TAKING, THE REGULATORY TAKINGS ARE VERY HIGH BAR TEST. SO THE GRANTING OR DENIAL OF A ZONING CASE IN AND OF ITSELF IS PROBABLY NEVER GOING TO BE A TAKING THERE HAS TO BE SOME OTHER MUNICIPAL ACTION THAT ACCOMPANIES JUST THE ZONING. THESE ARE SOME CASES THAT ARE TEXAS CASES. THERE'S CITY OF GLEN HEIGHTS, CITY OF FLOWER MOUND, CITY OF SUNNYVALE. THESE ARE TAKINGS CASES, CITY DOWN ZONE FROM ONE ACRE MINIMUM OR REQUIRED ONE ACRE MINIMUM. THEY REFUSED TO GO DOWN LOWER. IT WAS REALLY A FAIR HOUSING CASE. TOWN OF SUNNYVALE LOST THAT CASE. SHEFFIELD CITY DOWN ZONED PROPERTY TO LESS DENSITY TO AVOID MULTIFAMILY. THEY LOST THAT CASE. AND THEN I THE ONLY THING I CAN TELL YOU ABOUT THOSE THREE CASES, THEY ALL HAD THE SAME LAWYER, SAME CITY ATTORNEY, AND IT WASN'T ME. SO THAT'S THAT'S MY EDITORIAL COMMENT AGAIN, NONCONFORMING USES, THEY'RE REALLY NOT ZONING MATTERS. THEY'RE MATTERS. STAFF MATTERS LATER. THERE'S A WAY TO AMORTIZE THOSE NONCONFORMING USES, STRUCTURES OR LOTS THROUGH THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. THEY ADDRESS NONCONFORMING USES. YOU MAY CREATE A NONCONFORMING USE, BUT YOU'RE NOT GOING TO BE AT THE END, MAKING A DECISION ABOUT THAT NONCONFORMING USE. THAT'LL BE AGAIN AT THE BOARD OF ADJUSTMENT. VESTED RIGHTS CHAPTER 245. WE'VE KIND OF ALREADY COVERED THAT. I'VE KIND OF TOLD YOU ABOUT MORATORIUMS. I'VE DEFINITELY TOLD YOU ABOUT PUBLIC SCHOOLS. AND THEN THE LAST TWO THINGS I HAVE IS THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, WHERE WE ALREADY HAVE A HIGH LEVEL OF PUBLIC NOTICE POSTINGS, ALL THOSE KINDS OF THINGS. WE HAVE TO COMPLY WITH THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT, WHICH MEANS THE AGENDA HAS TO BE POSTED 72 HOURS BEFORE THE MEETING. IN ADDITION TO THE NOTICES THAT ARE REQUIRED UNDER THE STATE ZONING ENABLING ACT. 
          SO WE COMPLY WITH THAT. YOU ARE UNDER THE SAME RESTRICTIONS. THE COUNCIL IS AND THE ETHICS THAT GO ALONG WITH THAT. YOU'RE NOT TO DELIBERATE AND DELIBERATE MEANS EXCHANGE INFORMATION BETWEEN YOURSELVES OUTSIDE OF THIS MEETING. KNOW, IF YOU'RE ALL FOR IT, THE PANTHER FOOTBALL GAME ON FRIDAY AND YOU'RE ALL SITTING TOGETHER, SOMEONE'S GOING TO JUST MAKE THE ASSUMPTION YOU'RE TALKING ABOUT ZONING STUFF, WHICH MAY BE THE FURTHEST THING FROM YOUR CONVERSATION, BUT THAT'S THE APPEARANCE OF THAT. SO YOU HAVE TO BE VERY COGNIZANT OF THAT. 
          YOU CAN'T ALL JUMP IN THE VAN AND GO FOR A RIDE AND GO LOOK AT ALL THE PROPERTY AND DISCUSS THE ZONING CHANGES TOGETHER. THAT WOULD BE AN ILLEGAL MEETING WHERE YOU'RE DELIBERATING AND THE PUBLIC IS NOT AFFORDED THE OPPORTUNITY TO SEE THAT OR COMMENT ON IT. THERE MAY BE OCCASIONS WHEN YOU HAVE CLOSED MEETINGS. THE ONLY EXCEPTION THAT YOU'RE GOING TO HAVE FOR A CLOSED MEETING IS PROBABLY TO SEEK LEGAL ADVICE FROM CITY ATTORNEY OR SOMEONE FROM OUR OFFICE. IT DOES HAPPEN, ESPECIALLY MAY HAPPEN ON A VERY CONTROVERSIAL CASES THAT YOU MAY HAVE COMING UP WHERE YOU NEED SOME GUIDANCE ON WHAT I CAN SAY AND WHAT I CAN'T SAY, AND THAT WILL WE'LL TRY TO ANTICIPATE THAT AND MAKE SURE THAT THE AGENDA HAS IT. SOMETIMES IT JUST COMES UP AND WE DON'T KNOW ABOUT IT. SO WE TRY TO CARRY THAT ON ALL OF OUR AGENDAS. I'LL TELL YOU IF I'M NOT HERE, YOU CAN CALL ME. IT'S OKAY TO CALL ME. THERE IS A ATTORNEY GENERAL'S OPINION THAT SAYS IF YOU NEED TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION AND CALL YOUR LAWYER FOR THE PURPOSE OF GETTING LEGAL ADVICE, YOU MAY DO SO WITHOUT IT BEING PRIOR POSTED, BUT WE GO THAT EXTRA STEP AND MAKE SURE THAT IT'S ON OUR AGENDA THAT THE COUNTY OR IN THIS CASE, THE PLANNING AND ZONING COMMISSION, RESERVES THE RIGHT TO GO INTO EXECUTIVE SESSION ABOUT ANY MATTER THAT'S POSTED ON THE AGENDA. SO. YEAH, SOCIAL MEDIA, ONCE AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MATTER WHETHER YOU 
          [01:10:08]
TELEPHONE, SEND A LETTER, SEND AN EMAIL, SEND A FAX, CALL EACH OTHER ON THE PHONE, ALL OF THE IF YOU START POSTING STUFF ON NEXT DOOR AS A COMMISSION MEMBER, IF YOU START POSTING STUFF ON OTHER SOCIAL MEDIA ACCOUNTS. I HAVE TWITTER ACCOUNTS, BUT IT'S NOT TWITTER ANYMORE. IT'S ACTS OR ANY OTHER INSTAGRAM, ANY KIND OF SOCIAL MEDIA POSTING WHERE YOU'RE RESPONDING TO ONE ANOTHER COULD BE WHAT THEY CALL A WALKING QUORUM AND BE A VIOLATION OF THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. IF YOU HAVE ANY QUESTIONS, PLEASE CALL NATHAN AND HE'LL GET AHOLD OF ME IF YOU NEED TO. IF THERE'S SOMETHING COMING UP WHERE YOU'RE CONCERNED ABOUT, THERE MAY BE FOUR OR MORE OF YOU AT THE MEETING. CITIZENS APPEARANCES LIKE THE COUNCIL. WE HAVE TO PLACE A CITIZEN APPEARANCE REQUIREMENT ON THE AGENDA. SO THAT MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC CAN SPEAK BEFORE ANY OF THE AGENDA ITEMS ARE CONSIDERED, AND IT'S ONLY LIMITED TO AGENDA ITEMS. THAT'S THE ONLY REQUIREMENT THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT HAS THAT REQUIRES CITIZENS APPEARANCE ON THE AGENDA IS 007. SINCE MOST EVERYTHING WE DO AS A PUBLIC HEARING, YOU CAN HAVE A PUBLIC HEARING, PUBLIC COMMENT SECTION ON ANY ITEM THAT DOESN'T REQUIRE A PUBLIC HEARING AND THEN HAVE THE CITIZENS SPEAK AT THE PUBLIC HEARING ABOUT AN ITEM THEY WANT TO SPEAK ABOUT. WHEN THAT ITEM COMES FORWARD, COUNCIL DOES THAT ON ROUTINE OCCASION AS WELL. AS YOU KNOW, IF IT'S NOT ON THE AGENDA LIKE YOU COULDN'T SINCE WE DIDN'T HAVE AN AGENDA ITEM TO SELECT A CHAIRPERSON TONIGHT OR A VICE CHAIR, YOU COULDN'T DO THAT TONIGHT. SO WE'LL PUT IT ON THE AGENDA AND ALLOW YOU TO DO IT. YOU CAN ONLY DISCUSS ITEMS THAT ARE ON THE AGENDA. VIOLATIONS. IT VIOLATES OUR ETHICS ORDINANCE. IT CAN BE A CRIME. NO ONE'S GONE TO JAIL FOR VIOLATING THE OPEN MEETINGS ACT. 
          YET. SO WE WON'T BE THE FIRST. AND I KNOW YOU WON'T. SO STAFF'S PRETTY GOOD ABOUT ABOUT THAT. 
          AND YOU'VE GOT SOME EXPERIENCE AND WATCH THAT. THE PUBLIC INFORMATION ACT I WILL TELL YOU THAT IF YOU DO SEND IN INFORMATION AND COMMUNICATE THROUGH EMAIL WITH STAFF, WITH THE MANAGER'S OFFICE, WITH THE PUBLIC OFFICIAL, ALL THAT INFORMATION, EMAILS, TEXTS, SOCIAL MEDIA, HANDWRITTEN NOTES, ALL OF THAT BECOMES POTENTIAL PUBLIC INFORMATION. IF IT'S ABOUT A PUBLIC MATTER OR YOUR DUTIES AND RESPONSIBILITIES AS COMMISSION MEMBERS. SO BE VERY COGNIZANT OF THAT. I ALWAYS USED TO HAVE ONE OF MY COUNCIL MEMBERS IN ANOTHER CITY, USED TO WRITE WHAT WHAT I WOULD CALL INTERESTING COMMENTS ABOUT EITHER WHAT WAS GOING ON WITH HIS COLLEAGUES AND OR MEMBERS OF THE PUBLIC AND HE WOULD WRITE IT DOWN AND THEN LEAVE IT AT HIS DAIS, AND IT GOT PICKED UP. AND SO SOMEONE GOT WIND OF THAT AND MADE AN OPEN RECORDS REQUEST FOR IT WAS VERY COLORFUL. HE WAS EMBARRASSED, BUT IT WAS FUNNY. SO YOU WANT TO BE COGNIZANT OF ALL THESE THINGS THAT YOU INFORMATION THAT YOU GET FROM STAFF COUNCIL PACKETS AND ALL THAT KIND OF INFORMATION, OR IF YOU'VE GOT A QUESTION, PLEASE SEND IT TO NATHAN. DON'T COMMUNICATE WITH ONE ANOTHER OR SEND IT TO LYNETTE AND OTHER STAFF MEMBERS. AND WILL RESPOND BACK TO YOU ALL. THAT'S PUBLIC INFORMATION. JUST SO YOU KNOW, AND WE HAVE TO RETAIN IT FOR TWO YEARS. I'LL BE HAPPY TO ANSWER ANY QUESTIONS YOU MAY HAVE. YOU CAN READ THIS STUFF ON YOUR OWN. 
          I'M NOT WORRIED ABOUT CONFLICTS OF INTEREST. IF YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW IF YOU LIVE WITHIN 200FT OF ANY ZONING APPLICANT THAT COMES BEFORE YOU, YOU ARE DISQUALIFIED. UNDER STATE LAW, YOU'RE DISQUALIFIED UNDER OUR ETHICS ORDINANCE. SO IF YOU LIVE, IF YOU GET THE 200 FOOT NOTICE WHEN WE SEND IT OUT, YOU CANNOT PARTICIPATE IN THAT ZONING APPLICATION. IF YOUR BOSS SHOWS UP FROM YOUR JOB AND YOU'VE GOT A FINANCIAL OR PERSONAL INTEREST, OR YOU FEEL I'M GOING TO, I DON'T WANT YOU TO SHIRK YOUR RESPONSIBILITIES. BUT IF YOU ABSOLUTELY FEEL THAT YOU ARE BIASED AND CANNOT MAKE A FAIR DECISION, YOU'RE BETTER OFF NOT PARTICIPATING THAN BEING IN A DEFENDANT. I JUST KIND OF LEAVE IT AT THAT. YOU ONLY MAKE A RECOMMENDATION. ULTIMATELY, 
          [01:15:01]
THE COUNCIL WILL HAVE THAT RESPONSIBILITY BECAUSE THEIR APPROVAL, THERE'S A CONSEQUENCE, YOUR APPROVAL. THERE COULD BE A CONSEQUENCE IF YOU DENIED SOMETHING. NOW IT REQUIRES A SUPERMAJORITY. AND I YOU HAVE PROBABLY BEEN AROUND A LONG ENOUGH THAT I CAN ALMOST SMELL A SUPERMAJORITY WHEN I, YOU KNOW, WHEN OR I THINK I KNOW HOW THE COUNCIL'S GOING TO VOTE BECAUSE THEY HAVE HISTORY. YOU KNOW, WE HEAR THEM AND THEY SAY THINGS. AND I KNOW WHAT HOW THEY THINK. 
          AND WE WILL KNOW HOW YOU THINK. SO APPLICANT'S A GOOD DEVELOPER WILL KNOW WHEN IT'S TIME TO MAYBE WITHDRAW AND COME BACK AND DO THIS AGAIN WHEN HE'S GOT MOR. HERE'S MORE OF WHAT THE NEIGHBORS ARE SAYING AND MORE OF WHAT STAFF IS SAYING, AND MORE OF WHAT YOU'RE SAYING. THEY'RE BETTER OFF TO MAKE THE WITHDRAWAL AND THEN MAYBE COME BACK AND GIVE US A BETTER PRODUCT SO THEY CAN GET THAT DENIAL. BACK LONGER. AND I WANTED TO DO YOU HAVE ANY OTHER QUESTIONS? AND THEN YOU'RE FREE TO HAVE THIS PRESENTATION TOO. SO YOU CAN USE IT AS A REFERENCE GUIDE. LEARN ABOUT CONSANGUINITY AND AFFINITY AFFINITIES. MARRY INTO IT. CONSANGUINITY TO GRANDPA AND GRANDMA'S FAULT. SO. ANY QUESTIONS? I'M DONE. THANK YOU, MR. HAGER. NO FURTHER QUESTIONS AT THIS TIME, I SUPPOSE MEETING IS ADJOURNED. THANK YOU
* This transcript was compiled from uncorrected Closed Captioning.